Pocket JJ

[sean c]

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No, sorry. Like some of the others, if I raise the flop I'm going to bet the turn and check down on the river. Not sure if there's a better approach or not.

Edit: I'm *saving* a sb under this scenario, right? Call-down = 1 sb on the flop, 2 on the turn, 2 on the river = 5 sbs. My line = 2 sbs on the flop, 2 on the turn, 0 on the river = 4 sbs.

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Who said anything about calling down? The turn could be a bet, raise or fold. What i'm saying is i want to see what the turn card is and the action to me before i decide.

[@bsolute_luck]

pot size and no good reads, folding is poo poo. really i think we have to raise with Button behind us. we could have the best hand with a donkbet bluff with a smaller pocket pair, T or draw. i'm sorry if i scare a weak Q into calling down, that's just the way it goes sometimes.

the plan for the rest of the hand (assumming button folds and we're not 3-bet): bet the turn and fold UI if c/r and check behind the river.

if we're 3-bet and bet into on the turn: fold UI (our straight draw).

if button cold calls, i'll check/fold the turn UI or check/call if the straight draw improves.

typically i either runner-runner my BDSD or get my 1 outer Jack, but maybe you're not that good [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[car ramrod]

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typically i either runner-runner my BDSD or get my 1 outer Jack, but maybe you're not that good

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It takes a while to get to that level, but man is it fun. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[sean c]

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No, sorry. Like some of the others, if I raise the flop I'm going to bet the turn and check down on the river. Not sure if there's a better approach or not.

Edit: I'm *saving* a sb under this scenario, right? Call-down = 1 sb on the flop, 2 on the turn, 2 on the river = 5 sbs. My line = 2 sbs on the flop, 2 on the turn, 0 on the river = 4 sbs.

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Are you saying if you raise the flop your betting ANY turn card? And you think this line may actually save you money on this hand?

[car ramrod]

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Are you saying if you raise the flop your betting most turn card?

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there you go.

[numeri]

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Is the flop bettor the kind who will take a shot into the PFR with middle pair? Does he like to bet his draws? If so, I dont really want to give up on the hand and I'm inclined to raise. If the flop bettor is a rock, I'm through with the hand. I'm not flat-calling regardless, though.

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Agreed. Do you just mix it up 50/50 versus an unknown? I'm more inclined to just fold.

[numeri]

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if we're 3-bet and bet into on the turn: fold UI (our straight draw).

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Why even call a 3-bet? Is it because maybe it's a flush draw?

[@bsolute_luck]

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if we're 3-bet and bet into on the turn: fold UI (our straight draw).

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Why even call a 3-bet? Is it because maybe it's a flush draw?

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because if i count right the pot will be 19:1 for our call. i'd have to have an aggressive read for this to be a flush draw or a T (though i've seen dumber moves).

[sean c]

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if we're 3-bet and bet into on the turn: fold UI (our straight draw).

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Why even call a 3-bet? Is it because maybe it's a flush draw?

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because if i count right the pot will be 19:1 for our call. i'd have to have an aggressive read for this to be a flush draw or a T (though i've seen dumber moves).

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I assume your talking about 3-betting with a ten because i am 3-betting the nut flush draw or any flush draw with some other weak outs all day long here.

[@bsolute_luck]

you may do that, and that would classify as an aggressive read. you are betting out on a blank turn as well? that's why i said if 3-bet and bet into on the turn without that read, i'd fold.