Why do Jews Reject Jesus - Part 2

[bossJJ]

Repeat post (summary):

We believe that God spoke to the entire Jewish nation of 2-3 million people when He gave the Torah to Moses on Mount Sinai. He gave us His Torah, and told us to follow it always and not to change it, and not to follow anyone who changes it or claims that it no longer needs to be followed.

No other religion claims a national revelation from God; it's impossible to fake.

Either, we just “made up” God and Torah, or He really did introduce Himself to our ancestors. Neither Christianity nor Islam deny this revelation, they just claim that God later sent Jesus and Mohammed to tell us something different. We don’t believe either was from God, and both religions contradict what God told us in the Hebrew bible. Thousands of individuals have claimed to have received a personal revelation from God, but God has never again appeared before an entire nation to validate any new religion. The Torah is perfect and complete in itself, and it’s to be observed forever.

If you believe in God, it’s logical to believe that He would communicate with mankind to let us know what He wants, and that He wouldn’t keep changing His mind. As God’s laws are absolute and eternal, He doesn’t send any “prophets” to establish new religions with different sets of rules. The true prophets just urged Jews to return to Torah law, or they gave messages about the future, but they didn’t deny or contradict the Torah.

Other things that show that God exists and the Torah is true - the history of the Jews - our survival without a homeland for 2000 years, and the impact we have had on the world, and the Torah prophecies about Jews that have come true. Also, we see how Torah observance creates compassionate people and gives us a higher quality of life. I discussed all this stuff in previous posts.

A good book about this topic is "Permission to Receive: Four Rational Approaches to the Torah's Divine Origin," by Lawrence Kelemen. The book is a follow-up to his first book, "Permission to Believe: Four Rational Approaches to God's Existence."

Something else that may show the truth of the Torah is internal clues or codes within it - the “Torah codes”.
Primer

Torah Codes

Codes

A good book about this is "Cracking the Bible Code," by Jeffrey Satinover. He mentions a few formerly secular Jewish mathematicians who became religious as a result of working on the research or analyzing the results.

[bossJJ]

Please answer this question that I asked in the other thread:

Would you accept as evidence [that Mother Theresa and Pope John II were evil pedophiles] a book full of lies written decades after their deaths by those who just want to discredit Catholicism? The same book claims that your "new covenant" is no longer in effect, and that God wants you to worship the authors' god Bobo, who is really God. The book proves it by saying that he rose from the dead. The book also says Catholics are spiritually blind and enemies of God, otherwise you would know that Bobo is God and follow him. However, no one noticed Bobo when he allegedly lived. Would you consider that book as evidence?

[Peter666]

Bottom line is, this guy thinks every religion is wrong, but his is true, and anybody who disagrees is stupid. And His God talks through a burning bush. Yes, a bush that both talks and...burns....[img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[bossJJ]

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With the single exception of Judaism, the whole foundation of the other major world religions rests on a single individual. This person claims to be telling the truth, but how can we be sure when there are so many conflicting religions out there?

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Is that so? Surely an impartial reader of the hebrew bible would think that Judaism depends to a large degree on Moses and the law given to him by God. Or was there some eyewitness coroboration of Moses' receiving that law that I am not aware of? Otherwise how can we be sure Moses didn't just make up the story of the burning bush, make up the 10 commandments and inscribe them himself? Please don't think "the bible says so" is an appropriate response to this question, since you need to address yourself to non-christians/non-jews as well.

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However, I'm addressing myself to Christians, and you are all avoiding the question. Why should I accept the gt while rejecting all other "holy" books?

[bossJJ]

Repeat post:

You are such a hypocrite; you believe the miraculous claims of the gt without any evidence, while just rejecting similar claims made for other religions. And no, the gt is not evidence. Quoting a book to prove its own truth is circular reasoning. It's like quoting the Koran to prove that Islam is true. You don't believe the gt because of any real evidence, as there is none, but rather you already believed in Christianity, so you just accept that the gt is true, despite all the lies and contradictions in it.

[bossJJ]

If the Hebrew bible is true, then the gt is proven false because it contradicts the bible. If the Hebrew bible is not true, then the gt is also proven false because all its claims for jesus are based on the Hebrew bible. So either way, the gt is false.

It's silly to "prove" the gt by discrediting the Hebrew bible, as that disproves the gt and Christianity as well. Can't you guys come up with any reasons why I should believe the gt?

[bossJJ]

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i believe Rashi said all interpretations are correct as long as they were interpreted according to the guidelines set out in the torah.

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That is logically silly since differing interpretations cannot all be correct, and if there were in fact no differing interpretations there would not be different strains/sects of Judaism.

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There are some things all Jewish groups agree on, such as Jesus was not the messiah.

By your logic, Christianity must be false, because there are thousands of Christian denominations.

[bossJJ]

None of you have answered these questions:

1.) Why should I believe that the gt is from true or from God?

2.) Assuming it was true, how do you know that it hasn't since then been superceded by another religion, such as Islam or Mormonism?

Claiming that you now don't believe in the Hebrew bible does not answer the questions. It doesn't make sense, and it's just a way to avoid answering the questions.

[coolhandluke]

maybe you answered this in the first thrread, but why should one believe the ht? or is it jt?

[BluffTHIS!]

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There are some things all Jewish groups agree on, such as Jesus was not the messiah.

By your logic, Christianity must be false, because there are thousands of Christian denominations.

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To the contrary. I believe exactly one of them is totally true. But you didn't answer my question regarding Judaism.