need help playing online poker - i don' understand why i lose this wee

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
straight from Pokertracker

5/10 - 6 max - 236 total hands, -1.12 BB/100hands, 25% VPI
3/6 - 6 max - 5449 total hands, 1.47 BB/100 hands, 30% VPI
3/6 full - 282 total hands, 0.65 BB/100 hands, 35% VPI
2/4 full - 97 total hands, -15.08 BB/100 hands, 20% VPI
1/2 - 6 max - 188 total hands, 19.91 BB/100 hands, 30% VPI
1/2 full - 81 total hands, 1.23 BB/100 hands, 33% VPI


I know i need to play moroe hands, bigger sample size, etc....but this is all i have so far, so I'm throwing it out there so you all know where i'm coming from. Maybe you guys can spot something I can't, I don't know. Are these stats average, or good, or what ?

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We need more than just your VP$IP. The only significant one is your 3/6 game where you have 5k+ hands. And for that game, 30 VPIP is high unless you are an extremely good postflop player with a ton of experience, which I don't think you are. Once again, step down in limits until you're consistently beating the small limits for 10k+ hands at least, with a bb/100 of 2. We've all had to step down at some point, myself included, swallow your pride.

[jman220]

For the 3/6 give us your PFR, your PFA factor, your WSD%, your W$WSD. Your BB and SB stats.

thanks for helping me out, heres the PT stats:

3/6 6 max:
total hands: 5509
Players: 5.01
VPI: 29.38
VPI from SB: 41.22
Folded SB to Steal: 78.26
Folded BB to Steal: 57.86
Att to Steal Blinds: 23.77
BB/100 Hands: 1.47
Went to SD%: 33.91
Won $ at SD %: 55.28
PF Raise%: 11.47
Number of Sessions: 117
Avg Pot: 29.38
Hours: 58.27

BB stats for 3/6 6 max:
total hands: 1210
VPI: 24.63
CCPF%: 0.00
Win% in this pos: 29.92
Won$ WSF%: 30.91
BB Won/Hand: (0.11)
Went to SD%: 28.33
Won $ at SD: 53.04
PF Raise% 10.25
Raise First In%: 0.91


SB stats for 3/6 6 max:
total hands: 1145
VPI: 41.22
CCPF%: 0.00
Win% in this pos: 17.38
Won$ WSF%: 37.73
BB Won/Hand: (0.05)
Went to SD%: 32.18
Won $ at SD: 56.83
PF Raise% 17.12
Raise First In%: 11.09

I have varying styles of play that i have been trying out (one includes aggressive preflop play - give action to get action, one is passive - spend less money to see a flop)...the stats above include all of these strategies, so it is a mix

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for helping me out, heres the PT stats:

3/6 6 max:
total hands: 5509
Players: 5.01
VPI: 29.38
VPI from SB: 41.22
Folded SB to Steal: 78.26
Folded BB to Steal: 57.86
Att to Steal Blinds: 23.77
BB/100 Hands: 1.47
Went to SD%: 33.91
Won $ at SD %: 55.28
PF Raise%: 11.47
Number of Sessions: 117
Avg Pot: 29.38
Hours: 58.27

BB stats for 3/6 6 max:
total hands: 1210
VPI: 24.63
CCPF%: 0.00
Win% in this pos: 29.92
Won$ WSF%: 30.91
BB Won/Hand: (0.11)
Went to SD%: 28.33
Won $ at SD: 53.04
PF Raise% 10.25
Raise First In%: 0.91


SB stats for 3/6 6 max:
total hands: 1145
VPI: 41.22
CCPF%: 0.00
Win% in this pos: 17.38
Won$ WSF%: 37.73
BB Won/Hand: (0.05)
Went to SD%: 32.18
Won $ at SD: 56.83
PF Raise% 17.12
Raise First In%: 11.09

I have varying styles of play that i have been trying out (one includes aggressive preflop play - give action to get action, one is passive - spend less money to see a flop)...the stats above include all of these strategies, so it is a mix

[/ QUOTE ]

For starters, you have got to get that VP$IP down, and that PFR up. I recommend using a starting hand chart until you learn the ropes, like the one found here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...mp;sb=5&o=

You are definitely limping way too much. I'm betting your probably also making mistakes like cold calling more than one bet (this is almost never correct). 6 max limit is almost a raise or fold situation preflop. I would also start seriously reading the Heads Up and Short Handed forum, and the archives, to work on your post flop play and how to play specific hands.

Hi

what would be a good VPI target? What about PF raise? Does VPI include raising preflop, or strictly calling?

That starting hands chart helps, though does it apply differently for a full table vs 5/6 people?

Oh, and by the way thanks for the advice.

[MicroBob]

VP includes every time you put money into the pot pre-flop (voluntarily) so it includes both raising and calling.

Note - your numbers may be closer to correct if you have played a lot of 3 or 4 handed on those tables.


I think 23/17 or something like that are reasonable on the 6-max tables in your case. others may disagree.



ummm - yeah, the starting chart is for 6-max games...not for full games.

[DeeJ]

Shouted loudly - SAMPLE SIZE!

You cannot possibly get a clue as to how good/bad you are from so few hands. Even at 20,000 hands you are only getting a warmish approximation to the longer run.

Really, at 5k hands you'll have played about 1,200 hands. If you lost/won in big pots on just 10 of those hands against the odds, it'll skew your data horribly.

eg win 8 +20BB pots in the 5000 hands where you were lucky = +160BB or 160BB/5000 = ~3BB/100 whereas if you had lost them, say 8 -6BB pots = ~50BB/5000 or -1BB/100. That's a possible swing of 4BB/100 between lucky/unlucky on just 8 hands in 5000.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
Shouted loudly - SAMPLE SIZE!

You cannot possibly get a clue as to how good/bad you are from so few hands. Even at 20,000 hands you are only getting a warmish approximation to the longer run.

Really, at 5k hands you'll have played about 1,200 hands. If you lost/won in big pots on just 10 of those hands against the odds, it'll skew your data horribly.

eg win 8 +20BB pots in the 5000 hands where you were lucky = +160BB or 160BB/5000 = ~3BB/100 whereas if you had lost them, say 8 -6BB pots = ~50BB/5000 or -1BB/100. That's a possible swing of 4BB/100 between lucky/unlucky on just 8 hands in 5000.

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Yeah, this is why I'm just really commenting on his VP$IP/ PFR%. I think these are things that you can definitely start to get an idea of after 5k hands.

So I played a few hundred hands the other day (1/2 4-6 ppl), trying to track my tenedencies, and so I followed the chart for preflop. The table was generally filled with callers. The problem I found was that even if I raise, and with a few callers (say 2), i would miss the flop and not have anything to back it up except for overcard draws, etc. Over time I would be paying a lot to see these flops, and keep missing - and folding if shown aggression. I'm not sure if this was just because it was a small sample size or what, because even when i did hit, it usually didn't occur frequently enough, nor pay enough to cover all the raises preflop.

Just my 2 cents.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
So I played a few hundred hands the other day (1/2 4-6 ppl), trying to track my tenedencies, and so I followed the chart for preflop. The table was generally filled with callers. The problem I found was that even if I raise, and with a few callers (say 2), i would miss the flop and not have anything to back it up except for overcard draws, etc. Over time I would be paying a lot to see these flops, and keep missing - and folding if shown aggression. I'm not sure if this was just because it was a small sample size or what, because even when i did hit, it usually didn't occur frequently enough, nor pay enough to cover all the raises preflop.

Just my 2 cents.

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Postflop play is more important than preflop play. You need to read those books we told you about. SSHE by Miller, or the Lee Jones book would be a good start.