Interesting hand.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
Not in the PL sense I didnt but on the flop I think i doubled his pot bet.....hence bet the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to be a jackass, but minraising a pot bet is nothing like betting the pot. Betting the pot would be quadrupling his pot bet.

[zaxx19]

I BET WHAT WAS IN THE POT.

THATS IT.

If I was describing to you a hand orally and said, "I had AA and raised it 5BB and only one dude called. The flop came 24j 2 diamonds , so I bet the pot to drive out the draws bc he liked SC.."

Would you assume I meant 11.5BB or 22BB(assume no limpers)?

[mason55]

zaxx - How was he responding to being reraised? Was he the kind of maniac to just keep pushing even if you fight back or was he a semi-intelligent, i'll back down when facing aggression maniac?

I think a case can be made for reraising preflop if you think there's any chance he might continue his aggression. CO is obviously getting the right price to stay in with many many hands that could catch some garbage on the flop. You really want to isolate with maniac.

If he's like any maniac i've ever played with you might have to check behind on the flop since you're in position to get him to fire on the turn if you reraise before the flop, but I really think I would want to isolate this hand with the maniac. If I only take down a small pot this time, so be it, there are plenty of other tilting maniacs out there just waiting to give me money.

In this hand, I would be very very worried when CO cold called your raise. I would seriously start to put him on a garbage hand that connected or KK or AA. Since he's not firing back at you or the maniac after you guys both showed you're committed to your hands, I'm thinking he's got to have a 7 in his hand if he's anywhere near a decent player. If the stacks were reversed and the CO had the small stack I would probably stay in, but when he cold calls my raise I think I'm done with the hand.

The only way I can see you beating CO is if he has 88-JJ and thinks you're trying to isolate the maniac with your supposed overcards. The only other way you're still winning this hand after the flop is if he's REALLY REALLY bad.

Edit: I think I messed up here. Which one was the maniac?

[Ghazban]

With respect to the hand, CO must have you crushed unless he's absolutely terrible. He flat calls after you minraise a pot bet on the flop, then calls off half his chips on the turn and the rest on the river. If he's doing this with a worse hand, he's one of the worst players I've ever seen.

[KowCiller]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont want to define my hand yet. Thats the whole point of cold calling with QQ here

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean he was SUICIDAL TILTED.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean... you were there, I wasn't... but do "SUICIDAL TILTED" players bother putting you on a range of hands when you re-raise him preflop or do they just get in a huff and refuse to be pushed around? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Not in the PL sense I didnt but on the flop I think i doubled his pot bet

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it's just my lack of understanding, but I didn't realize there was any other formula for betting the pot than in the PL sense.

[ QUOTE ]
CO is what makes this hand problematic and dangerous, but at that point I was willing to take larger risks than usualy to extract cash from this guy

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case, ni han. I do this sometimes too. Hope it worked out for you on this one.

KoW

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
I BET WHAT WAS IN THE POT.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you didn't. You bet what was in the pot before any action had occurred that round. I'm not trying to be an anal-retentive nit here, but a term like "betting the pot" has a commonly understood definition that is different from the way you are using it.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
With respect to the hand, CO must have you crushed unless he's absolutely terrible. He flat calls after you minraise a pot bet on the flop, then calls off half his chips on the turn and the rest on the river. If he's doing this with a worse hand, he's one of the worst players I've ever seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I don't see how everyone else in this thread says they can't find a fold anywhere. If zaxx is ahead of CO then CO is awful awful awful.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
I BET WHAT WAS IN THE POT.

THATS IT.

If I was describing to you a hand orally and said, "I had AA and raised it 5BB and only one dude called. The flop came 24j 2 diamonds , so I bet the pot to drive out the draws bc he liked SC.."

Would you assume I meant 11.5BB or 22BB(assume no limpers)?

[/ QUOTE ]

$9.75 in pot + $9.75 for his bet + $9.75 for your call means pot is $29.25. Then you bet another $29.25 making your bet ~$60. That is raising the pot.

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
With respect to the hand, CO must have you crushed unless he's absolutely terrible. He flat calls after you minraise a pot bet on the flop, then calls off half his chips on the turn and the rest on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what I thought after the turn(i.e. im probably toast) but the pot just got too damn big and like I said it was a race to get the PFR's $$$.

PLUS [ QUOTE ]
CO is a call station

[/ QUOTE ]

He had recently lost 100$ also. See I included this in my initial pot then got lazy. Really my fault. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[zaxx19]

Basically (and its my fault I didnt include this in post)

This is totally and completely a read dependant play.

Both these players are on tilt.

One, the PFR who is completely gone. I want to trap him for a big pot so I smoothcall preflop. If an unfavorable flop comes...well not much in and ill just muck it.

The other was calling down a ton, and had been spewng alot of chips(though not close to the amount the pfr was)

Given those reads by the time it got to the turn I feel Pot Stuck if the board stayed safe, it did.

Im either ahead or way behind so Im not forcing a call station out of the pot...even if I tried his pot odds are too bloated if he has a real draw to force him out anyway.

Im commited to the hand completely and dont want to scare off inferior holdings.\

Is this "typical of my play? No

Is it a situation we all face at times when riskier plays must be taken to extract $$ from insane players?

I think the risks are EV+ many times and Im willing to incur the variance to go after that easy money.