KK early in Super Monday - Page 3

Kirkrrr · #1 11-15-2005, 01:04 AM

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In the beginning, I'm a lot more concerned with getting a stack to work with than surviving into the second hour so I can survive into the third, and so on.

Kirk

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unless you're a pro who has an opportunity to make big money playing in ring games should you bust out early, I totally disagree.

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I'm not a pro, I do have plentiful opportunities to make good money in side games, but how is that even relevant to my argument? If surviving with an average stack from one hour into next is your goal, our approaches to the game differ... radically. And I think mine is better.

Kirk

jwvdcw · #2 11-15-2005, 01:25 AM

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In the beginning, I'm a lot more concerned with getting a stack to work with than surviving into the second hour so I can survive into the third, and so on.

Kirk

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unless you're a pro who has an opportunity to make big money playing in ring games should you bust out early, I totally disagree.

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I'm not a pro, I do have plentiful opportunities to make good money in side games, but how is that even relevant to my argument? If surviving with an average stack from one hour into next is your goal, our approaches to the game differ... radically. And I think mine is better.

Kirk

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Ok...totally ignore my qualifer of "if you're a pro and can make great money in side games." I only said that to prevent someone from critisizing my argument on that almost irrelevant point.

Certainly, we could both be successful with different styles. However, I must say that the need to accumulate a big stack early is entirely overrated imho, and my first guess would be to say that you are doing this here.

Kirkrrr · #3 11-15-2005, 02:04 AM

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Certainly, we could both be successful with different styles.

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I think that nails it down. I play a LAG style, and I need a big stack to make that work. I'm guessing you don't and probably have the best hand majority of the time when you go all-in.

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the need to accumulate a big stack early is entirely overrated imho

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To re-emphasize: it's not a preference, but an essential tool depending on your style of play.

Kirk

#4 11-15-2005, 12:46 AM

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Blinds 10/20

T1070

I raise UTG1 with black KK to 55 and get called by guy with T1665 two to my left. All else fold

No reads, other than table had not been overly loose, more on tighter side.

flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet T150, and get raised T350

Pot is now 640 and I have 865 left. Whats my plan?

I am a MTT newb, so please bear with me.

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Results?

sublime · #5 11-15-2005, 12:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blinds 10/20

T1070

I raise UTG1 with black KK to 55 and get called by guy with T1665 two to my left. All else fold

No reads, other than table had not been overly loose, more on tighter side.

flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet T150, and get raised T350

Pot is now 640 and I have 865 left. Whats my plan?

I am a MTT newb, so please bear with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Results?

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i pushed and lost to 99 [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

jwvdcw · #6 11-15-2005, 12:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blinds 10/20

T1070

I raise UTG1 with black KK to 55 and get called by guy with T1665 two to my left. All else fold

No reads, other than table had not been overly loose, more on tighter side.

flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet T150, and get raised T350

Pot is now 640 and I have 865 left. Whats my plan?

I am a MTT newb, so please bear with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Results?

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i pushed and lost to 99 [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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gee what a surprise...a small pocket pair- the exact type of hand I've been saying all along will bust you out when you only raise small with KK or AA.

Note: sarcasm not intended to antagonize you(sorry about your loss)...its directed at those disagreeing here.

mlagoo · #7 11-15-2005, 01:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blinds 10/20

T1070

I raise UTG1 with black KK to 55 and get called by guy with T1665 two to my left. All else fold

No reads, other than table had not been overly loose, more on tighter side.

flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet T150, and get raised T350

Pot is now 640 and I have 865 left. Whats my plan?

I am a MTT newb, so please bear with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Results?

[/ QUOTE ]

i pushed and lost to 99 [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

gee what a surprise...a small pocket pair- the exact type of hand I've been saying all along will bust you out when you only raise small with KK or AA.

Note: sarcasm not intended to antagonize you(sorry about your loss)...its directed at those disagreeing here.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you dont want 99 to come along for a preflop raise when you have KK, you are playing far too risk averse, imo. different strokes different folks though, i guess.

jwvdcw · #8 11-15-2005, 01:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blinds 10/20

T1070

I raise UTG1 with black KK to 55 and get called by guy with T1665 two to my left. All else fold

No reads, other than table had not been overly loose, more on tighter side.

flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet T150, and get raised T350

Pot is now 640 and I have 865 left. Whats my plan?

I am a MTT newb, so please bear with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Results?

[/ QUOTE ]

i pushed and lost to 99 [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

gee what a surprise...a small pocket pair- the exact type of hand I've been saying all along will bust you out when you only raise small with KK or AA.

Note: sarcasm not intended to antagonize you(sorry about your loss)...its directed at those disagreeing here.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you dont want 99 to come along for a preflop raise when you have KK, you are playing far too risk averse, imo. different strokes different folks though, i guess.

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Ok, lets make a few assumptions(obviously not all are true all the time, but I think that there would be quite a few times when they would all be true):

-If the flop misses both of you, you will win the pot with your first bet.

-If he hits his set and you have an overpair, you will lose your stack(apparently, many here want to argue against this...I play cards full time-I don't say this to brag, just to say that I'm not a terrible player- and I think that 9/10 times I lose my stack here)

-If you both hit sets, you will take his stack.

-If all rags come and you both have overpairs, then about 30% of the time you'll run into a player whose entire stack you can take. The other 70% is too good to let this happen.

You'll notice that I ignore small chip wins, as I don't think they're overly important here.

Under these circumstances, you clearly cannot make such a small raise that it gives a player proper implied odds to draw to his set.

Which part of this do you disagree with?

#9 11-15-2005, 02:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Blinds 10/20

T1070

I raise UTG1 with black KK to 55 and get called by guy with T1665 two to my left. All else fold

No reads, other than table had not been overly loose, more on tighter side.

flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet T150, and get raised T350

Pot is now 640 and I have 865 left. Whats my plan?

I am a MTT newb, so please bear with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Results?

[/ QUOTE ]

i pushed and lost to 99 [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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For the sake of the "call and push a non-scare card turn"er's, what was the turn?

woodguy · #10 11-15-2005, 01:13 AM

PF raise is good, cont-bet is good as a slight overbet can look like missed AK.

I have no problem getting it all in here.

This early in a Super, you can often have donks playing 77 this way figuring you for missed AK. I can see him playing a Q or J similarly as well and the minish raise is testing your cont bet.

Its a pretty draw heavy board so I'm probably pushing here, but calling and c/r all in on the turn may work too, but I really don't want to see around 17 cards come off on the turn, and I can have 1500 early which lets me splash around a lot in LP.

I proceed which ever way you like best assuming you are ahead.

Regards,
Woodguy