Revisiting the Retarded Jets Front Office Moves - Page 3

Jack of Arcades · #21 10-13-2005, 12:04 PM

Actually, you were right about the straight swap. That was such an on-again, off-again saga trying to trade Coles in the offseason I forgot the terms of the deal. It still clearly hasn't worked out.

My point is that Coles will always get a pass for "not having a QB" as long as he sucks. And he's sucking right now. Santana Moss outperformed him in New York, and now Washington, but no matter where Coles goes, he has no QB. However, Santana Moss also played without a QB and he did pretty well in New York. Over half the time last season, Santana Moss was being thrown the ball by Brooks Bollinger, Quincy Carter, or an injured Chad Pennington. He averaged 23 yards per catch with Bollinger and Carter. This doesn't even take into account Santana Moss's PR value.

I don't see how ANYONE can justify the Doug Jolley trade.

IndieMatty · #22 10-13-2005, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, you were right about the straight swap. That was such an on-again, off-again saga trying to trade Coles in the offseason I forgot the terms of the deal. It still clearly hasn't worked out.

My point is that Coles will always get a pass for "not having a QB" as long as he sucks. And he's sucking right now. Santana Moss outperformed him in New York, and now Washington, but no matter where Coles goes, he has no QB. However, Santana Moss also played without a QB and he did pretty well in New York. Over half the time last season, Santana Moss was being thrown the ball by Brooks Bollinger, Quincy Carter, or an injured Chad Pennington. He averaged 23 yards per catch with Bollinger and Carter. This doesn't even take into account Santana Moss's PR value.

I don't see how ANYONE can justify the Doug Jolley trade.

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Seriously. You are wrong. Stick to baseball.

When the F did Moss EVER do better than Coles in New York? Are you kidding?

Edit: Please see my justification for the Jolley Trade.

Basically they traded down whatever the exact number of picks ; 12? For Doug Jolley and CAP room.

brettbrettr · #23 10-13-2005, 12:12 PM

No one is "justifying" the Jolley trade. We're exlpaining it. And like Matty said, it was about money. When the end of the first round is littered with second round talent, and you're able to pick up a (seemingly) quality TE and get a second round pick, why not move down?

As for Coles, he was a better WR than Moss last year, and he's still better. He had 90 catches with no QB last year. I still think that's remarkable. He'll put up good numbers this year, but I think given Chad's inability to throw the ball(plus Herm's inability to bench him) plus the fact that Bollinger didn't throw the ball in the Ravens game, you have to wait and see. His numbers will get better with Vinny. They already did, he had a solid week last week...

The Coles Moss deal was also about money, you realize. The Jets didn't want to pay Santana #1 WR type money and I don't think they were wrong there at all. I like Santana a lot. He's an excellent player, has great, great hands and he's threat to score whenever he touches the ball. But he never went over the middle. And he missed 3-4 games annually (or played sparingly) b/c of hammy problems. To me that's not a #1 WR. I don't think that's going to change and I don't think the Jets made a bad deal.

Jack of Arcades · #24 10-13-2005, 12:14 PM

LOL. Anti-Jets bias?

The Jets traded their first rounder for a second rounder, with Doug Jolley thrown in.

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Coles is a better receiver then Moss; Come on now.

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I really don't think so. They're completely different receivers, but Santana Moss is a deep threat and a punt returner, while Coles is... a headcase. I know there were cap considerations, but going through a lot of drama to get a receiver who's got a "rapport" with your quarterback (who shouldn't be on the field) when there's not much evidence he's better than the guy you're giving up... I dunno, why bother? It was a whole lot of nothing that shook up the team.

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You have some weird anti-jets bias. Where have you been the last 3 weeks with "look, see how much the Jets defense sucks without their best player Jason Ferguson?" Did you notice Dewayne Robertson all over the field last week? Or James Reed stuffing the run two weeks ago?

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Gee, they played: 1) TB minus Cadillac and 2) Baltimore, where Jamal Lewis averages, oh, 3.1 ypc.

brettbrettr · #25 10-13-2005, 12:18 PM

You're right, Coles and Moss are completely different. But when you're guaging which one to give #1 type money, who do you choose?

I also don't see the headcase thing at all...And 1200 yds/year is more than "rapport."

When Coles was a RFA, the Jets said they'd match any offer. Then the Skins made their ridiculous offer and the Jets said, umm, we won't do that. They never wanted to let him go...

Soul Daddy · #26 10-13-2005, 12:18 PM

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As for Coles, he was a better WR than Moss last year, and he's still better. He had 90 catches with no QB last year.

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He averaged 10 ypr with those 90 catches. Moss had half the catches, 100 less yards, and 4 more TDs. It's hard to agree that Coles had the better year.

brettbrettr · #27 10-13-2005, 12:19 PM

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The Jets traded their first rounder for a second rounder, with Doug Jolley thrown in.

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This is a good move considering the prospoects available in the first round. You also neglect to mention that we got a player who many considered to be a first rounder with our SECOND 2nd round pick.

IndieMatty · #28 10-13-2005, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
LOL. Anti-Jets bias?

The Jets traded their first rounder for a second rounder, with Doug Jolley thrown in.

[ QUOTE ]
Coles is a better receiver then Moss; Come on now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think so. They're completely different receivers, but Santana Moss is a deep threat and a punt returner, while Coles is... a headcase. I know there were cap considerations, but going through a lot of drama to get a receiver who's got a "rapport" with your quarterback (who shouldn't be on the field) when there's not much evidence he's better than the guy you're giving up... I dunno, why bother? It was a whole lot of nothing that shook up the team.

[ QUOTE ]
You have some weird anti-jets bias. Where have you been the last 3 weeks with "look, see how much the Jets defense sucks without their best player Jason Ferguson?" Did you notice Dewayne Robertson all over the field last week? Or James Reed stuffing the run two weeks ago?

[/ QUOTE ]

Gee, they played: 1) TB minus Cadillac and 2) Baltimore, where Jamal Lewis averages, oh, 3.1 ypc.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're completely ignoring:

1) Salary Cap implications for the Draft.
2) "You think Moss is a better player" does not make Moss a better player. (Trust me, I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Moss)
3) You were DEAD wrong when you said Jason Fergusen was the best Jets defensive player last year. Has Parcells even taken him off the bench yet?

brettbrettr · #29 10-13-2005, 12:20 PM

I don't think Coles did have the better year, but 90 is still alot on that offense.

FWIW, Moss will prob always have more TDs that Coles year on year. But I don't think that makes him the better WR.

Jack of Arcades · #30 10-13-2005, 12:22 PM

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When the F did Moss EVER do better than Coles in New York? Are you kidding?

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How about last year when he averaged 19 yards per catch, despite being thrown out by a shoulderless chad pennington and quincy carter? That was better than any of Coles' seasons.

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Basically they traded down whatever the exact number of picks ; 12? For Doug Jolley and CAP room.

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And you're saying they couldn't have gotten anything better at all for that first round pick? I mean, they turned it into Mike Nugent.