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#21
07-21-2004, 09:13 PM
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Re: RESULTS: The Flop and Question.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No way. You need to ram and jam with this hand. [/ QUOTE ] Yes and no. You need to protect your hand, but that does not always mean ramming and jamming on the flop. SSHE covers this in detail. [/ QUOTE ] Nice. What a useful post. You could've saved some keystrokes by just saying RTFM. Would you like to grace us with some of the wisdom you've gleaned from said text or is it just too complex for us poor ignorant fools to comprehend? 
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#22
07-21-2004, 10:25 PM
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Re: RESULTS: The Flop and Question.
[ QUOTE ]
Nice. What a useful post. You could've saved some keystrokes by just saying RTFM. Would you like to grace us with some of the wisdom you've gleaned from said text or is it just too complex for us poor ignorant fools to comprehend? [/ QUOTE ] Dude, no need to get mad. There are 15+ pages in SSHE on this particular topic. I can't post it all. You have to take into account position, prior action, relative value of your hand, redraws, etc. The point I was making is that protecting your hand does not always equate to going nuts on the flop. That is a misunderstood point that I thought was worth noting. FWIW, I have always thought it is standard procedure on these forums to refer people to a section/chapter/page of a 2+2 book. Like when people ask about HU play on the end, people refer them to TOP. Why? Because the subject is too complex to post all the possibilities, and the 2+2 authors explain it far better than others.
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#23
07-22-2004, 12:47 AM
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Re: RESULTS: The Flop and Question.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Nice. What a useful post. You could've saved some keystrokes by just saying RTFM. Would you like to grace us with some of the wisdom you've gleaned from said text or is it just too complex for us poor ignorant fools to comprehend? [/ QUOTE ] Dude, no need to get mad. There are 15+ pages in SSHE on this particular topic. I can't post it all. You have to take into account position, prior action, relative value of your hand, redraws, etc. The point I was making is that protecting your hand does not always equate to going nuts on the flop. That is a misunderstood point that I thought was worth noting. [/ QUOTE ] Fine -- I just wish you had just said that the first time. [ QUOTE ] FWIW, I have always thought it is standard procedure on these forums to refer people to a section/chapter/page of a 2+2 book. Like when people ask about HU play on the end, people refer them to TOP. Why? Because the subject is too complex to post all the possibilities, and the 2+2 authors explain it far better than others. [/ QUOTE ] You may be right -- I've only been on this forum for a few months so I definitely don't have the experience that you do. It's quite possible that this is the SOP for posting and I just missed it. My point was that I think it's a little elitist to expect that everyone has a copy of a book that just shipped a few days ago. Referring people to TOP is one thing -- it's been around for a long time. Referring people to SSH is a little different, IMO.
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#24
07-22-2004, 01:31 AM
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Re: I Was Called A Moron!
Even getting these kind of odds, I don't think it is that easy a complete. You really don't flop a lot of straight draws with a one gapper and you don't have much high card value.
For completing here to have value, I think you need to play well when you flop top pair with this hand. On the other hand, if you are playing against extremely poor opponents that will allow you to collect as many as seven big bets on later streets when they have only top pair, then perhaps you can play the hand simply for its straight value.
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#25
07-22-2004, 03:36 AM
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Re: I Was Called A Moron!
I agree with the "catching a piece of the flop" point there exactly. I have a big problem with that and it's costing me $$$.
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#26
07-22-2004, 05:28 AM
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Re: I Was Called A Moron!
[ QUOTE ]
I thought this was pretty routine, but several hands later the guy was still referring to me as the idiot that called with 10,8 [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]. [/ QUOTE ] He's on tilt!!! stay at that table!
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#29
07-22-2004, 11:21 AM
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Re: I Was Called A Moron!
As long as we are quoting the books, I would note that SSH does not even recommend completing with J9o. More important, I think, is this wonderful passage from page 11:
[ QUOTE ] No doubt, some people will compare our [pre-flop] recommendations to those made in other books, and they will try to decide which recommendations are better. We do not recommend you do this. It is basically a waste of time. As long as the strategies are essentially tight and eschew calling raises with offsuit hands, there is simply not much to choose between one particular set of guidelines and another. [/ QUOTE ] As someone who has posted a number of marginal pre-flop questions, I think I'll post this over my computer to look at the next time I am fretting about some pre-flop decision.
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#30
07-22-2004, 12:00 PM
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Re: I Was Called A Moron!
[ QUOTE ]
I'm looking to hit the flop hard or get out immediately. In this case, with T8o, if I get a T or 8 on the flop, I'm still looking to fold in most cases. What I really want is two pair, straight draw, or better, else I'm folding to the first sign of a decent hand. So far this has been very successful for me. In most cases, I either lose 1/2 SB or gain many BB. [/ QUOTE ] Late to the thread, but I thought I'd comment on this statement in particular. This is very hand dependent, and we're veering into discussion that might be too general to be useful, but... If a flop has a T or an 8, there's a good chance you have 5 outs (and might even be winning!) and should proceed as such. This would probably mean tending to see a turn card for one bet and hoping to catch trips or 2-pair.
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