Playing Looser in low limits...WARNING POTENTIONALLY HAZARDOUS CONTENT

[sfer]

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Point/Counterpoint

All this is sound theory, but there is a pretty big problem with the specific examples mentioned:

I regularly 4 table in what I assume to be among the loosest games around (Party 2/4).Even these games are almost never loose enough to play the hands you are describing.

I used to play all Axs & all pocket pairs regardless of position before I got PT. After I invested in PT, I was somewhat appalled by what I found. Despie winning some monster pots with these hands when they hit hard (which you certainly will do), they were STILL losing hands for me. The games just simply arent loose enough to justify playing these hands irregardless of position etc. In my experience, a "typical" hand at Party 2/4 will typically be 4-5 players for 1 bet to the flop, or 3-4 for a raise to the flop. Hands where 8 or 9 people see the flop are RARE.

So yes, you do play some of these hands MORE often. Play 66+ from any position. Play 22+ from MP on. I dont recommend suited Ax below A9 at all, except in steal situations, which are rare at the game I play. Try to sneak in with 98s, 87s, 67s in MP after a limper or two. But don't go overboard; you aren't giving up anything if you limp less than 5% of the time with 75s, because it's nearly that rare when it's profitable to do so.

jvs

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I have a hard time distinguishing 66 and 55 UTG. You're not thinking clearly about why and when these hands are profitable.

[deetle]

What were your PT stats that that made you stop playing A/2s-A/8s from MP on. You said typically it was 4-5 for 1 bet. This itself should make it profitable. The only thing I can come up with is you were going to far when a Ace flopped and you were dominated.

[MaxPower]

Maybe you should stop looking at pokertracker?

[PTjvs]

There isnt much different between 66 & 55 UTG, or possibly even 22-88, but there is some. At this level, lots of dorks run K5s, Q3s etc, and obviously Im in much better shape unimproved vs. those hands w/66 as opposed to 44. Yes, that's a fine line to draw.

Id have to be home to check out PT for exact numbers for how often I actually win this sort of hand, but small/mid pocket pairs do occasionally win unimproved even limped. You certainly have to be careful with your spots though to avoid spewing chips.

jvs

[PTjvs]

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What were your PT stats that that made you stop playing A/2s-A/8s from MP on. You said typically it was 4-5 for 1 bet. This itself should make it profitable. The only thing I can come up with is you were going to far when a Ace flopped and you were dominated.

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Over my first 30k hands or so w/PT, I was in the red with every Axs below AT, with the exception of A5 (statistical abnormality Id think). If you are playing A4s in MP behind 1-2 limpers, you are looking at a 4-5way unraised flop. The ONLY flops you are happy with are flushes, 4flushes, wheels, two pairs & trips. You simply cannot continue on any other flops. I have not found these hands to be profitable enough when they hit to offset the times where they do not.

The only times I play Axs X<9 that I can think of off the top of my head are on extremely loose tables where Im going 6-7 to the flop, or for a raise in LP/isolation reraise vs. absolute 95/65 maniac.

That said, I am bad at poker. I do smash 2/4 pretty badly, but that doesn't really mean much. So I certainly could be wrong.

jvs

[baronzeus]

just fwiw, i played about 10K hands at 2/4 full with a vpip of 25-26 a couple months ago as an experiment. limping 76s UTG is fun.

i might have not done it properly though. my winrate was slightly better than my tighter (19/11) mode but i'll chalk it up to variance.

Yes in the right games I think you if don't loosen up you are leaving money on the table. In a good 1/2 or 2/4 game I want my VPIP to get up in the 25-30 range. Must be a lot of loose passive players though.

[B Dids]

This is a good thread, but like, shouldn't people just go read SSHE instead of this thread?

I would hope that every person posting in this forum has read that book.

I say this as somebody who Joe Tall wanted to ban until I'd re-read HEPFAP (or TOP, can't remember, but Joe was right).

[baronzeus]

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This is a good thread, but like, shouldn't people just go read SSHE instead of this thread?


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What is SSHE?

[PTjvs]

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This is a good thread, but like, shouldn't people just go read SSHE instead of this thread?


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What is SSHE?

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What is "read?"