PP 100-200 QQ hand. - Page 3

ShortySaurus · #21 08-21-2005, 02:38 PM

Hey TSP,
Im pretty sure KK will bet this river here as he wouldve heard from an ace on flop or turn. I'm pretty sure he has JJ or TT so go ahead and bet. You are going to win most of the time so I think its a clear value bet.

Justin A · #22 08-21-2005, 02:42 PM

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Im pretty sure KK will bet this river here as he wouldve heard from an ace on flop or turn.

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This is not true. If they're both good, thinking players then it would be a good line for hero to wait until the river to raise with an ace.

Steve Giufre · #23 08-21-2005, 03:18 PM

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Im pretty sure KK will bet this river here as he wouldve heard from an ace on flop or turn.

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This is not true. If they're both good, thinking players then it would be a good line for hero to wait until the river to raise with an ace.

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Right but KK has to call the river anyway if TSP bets, so why wouldnt this guy lead to prevent TSP from checking behind with 88 99 1010 JJ? Just cause TSP very well might wait till the river to raise with an ace, doesnt mean this guy shouldnt have an easy bet with kk.

Justin A · #24 08-21-2005, 03:20 PM

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Im pretty sure KK will bet this river here as he wouldve heard from an ace on flop or turn.

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This is not true. If they're both good, thinking players then it would be a good line for hero to wait until the river to raise with an ace.

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Right but KK has to call the river anyway if TSP bets, so why wouldnt this guy lead to prevent TSP from checking behind with 88 99 1010 JJ? Just cause TSP very well might wait till the river to raise with an ace, doesnt mean this guy shouldnt have an easy bet with kk.

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Sorry I was unclear. I wasn't disagreeing with the fact that KK will bet, just that the thought process behind it was wrong in that case.

Steve Giufre · #25 08-21-2005, 03:22 PM

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Anybody like raising the turn?

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I think this guy folds all that hands that TSP beats when he raises the turn, and calls or three bets with all hands TSP cant beat.

Steve Giufre · #26 08-21-2005, 03:37 PM

Got ya. In that case I agree with what you are saying.

DcifrThs · #27 08-21-2005, 05:31 PM

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he really shouldn't be check-raising with a hand worse than yours very often.

I think when TSP calls, calls, and then bets the river when checked to on this board, his hand is pretty well defined. I wouldn't completely discount the possibility of a worse pair checkraising the river. It's the only way it can win once TSP calls the turn.

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yup. nice post.

-Barron

obi---one · #28 08-21-2005, 05:47 PM

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Anybody like raising the turn?

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No.

And, thats a bet on the river and I don't think it is close.
And, i would probably fold to a check-raise but not always, depending on the player. Nice to have position in spots like this.

Turning Stone Pro · #29 08-21-2005, 06:23 PM

I hitched up my skirt and checked the river. He showed 88, and MHWG.

I feel I played the flop and turn properly, for the reasons Nightwish set forth.

Thanks to all the responses -- I agree that betting on the end was the way to go. I did not know this player well enough to know whether he would c/r the river with an A, and I didn't know whether he might make a desperate move by c/r raising the river with other hands I could beat.

Because I HATE the prospect of betting myself out of a sizeable pot by bet-folding the river if he c/rs, I decided to check and show it down.

The key for me checking the river was the fact that if I bet and get c/r'd I WILL NOT lay it down. So, I saved myself this unpleasant possibility.

TSP

TStoneMBD · #30 08-21-2005, 06:32 PM

hi tsp, you say that you think value betting is the correct line here, but isnt it only the correct line if you plan to fold to a cr? if you planned to call a cr then i think checking is the right play. because i think that betting is only the correct line if you can fold to a checkraise, if i am right on this, other good players will know this as well allowing them to checkraise bluff weaker hands. as a result, i am not comfortable guaging the likelyhood of their bluff attempts which is another deciding factor for me to just check it down.

everyone has said that they think betting is the right line, but if it was me i would have checked. maybe that is because i do not feel comfortable folding or calling when checkraised, and i really think any intelligent player should be able to check-fold TT here. would you or another solid 100-200 player have made it to the river with a hand like KQ, 77, 88, 99? i would have folded on the turn with these hands making TT an impossible winner if i make it to the river and bet. maybe my folds are weaktight?