Hybrid Cars

[eric5148]

I was watching that Alan Alda Pretends To Be Interested In Science Show the other day. There was this gas station in Iceland that was making it's own hydrogen. That was cool. They've got the geothermal energy thing going on over there too.

The hydrogen cars are supposedly a more realistic long-term solution.

[BoxTree]

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The hydrogen cars are supposedly a more realistic long-term solution.

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I know little to nothing about hydrogen-based cars, but I can't stop thinking of The Hindenburg. I'll do my own research, but if you have any good links, please feel free to post/PM them.

[wacki]

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That's ok, I know you're a doom and gloom energy is running out global warming will melt the ice caps and drown us all kind of guy. I have faith we'll make it just fine.

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Doom and gloom.... hahaa... why don't you look up a little thing called reality. You know what, try and post an article from a reputable scientific journal that doesn't agree with what I say. I'm more then willing to put money on this [censored]. I've got $5,000 dollars that says the C14 in the atmosphere will decrease over the next ten years. When I say $5,000, I mean $5,000 in 2005 dollars. I am also willing to bet the same amount that oil will be more expensive (even adjusted for inflation) in 2010. That's $10,000 I will put on the line. I will also bet that middle eastern oil will be at crisis levels in 2020 (and I consider that a very safe bet). I am also willing to put down significant quantities of money saying that the scenerios presented by John F. Bookout (President of Shell USA) and the Nobel Laureate Richard Smalley are statistically accurate. Feel free to PM me. Put your money where your mouth is you ignorant fool. I've got a lawyer, I will put this [censored] on paper and post a copy of it on 2+2.

[wacki]

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The hydrogen cars are supposedly a more realistic long-term solution.

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I know little to nothing about hydrogen-based cars, but I can't stop thinking of The Hindenburg. I'll do my own research, but if you have any good links, please feel free to post/PM them.

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Hydrogen cars are safe, don't worry. Their biggest problem is performance.

[Leo99]

I'm saying that I don't expect a major distrubtion for more than a few years in our way of life due to energy shortages. You expect a century of problems. Let talk about reality and quality of life. I don't give a crap about C14 levels. Why don't you extapolate your C14 decrease into reality? What will a C14 decrease mean to the average person? How will a C14 decrease affect me? Oil more expensive in 2010? Wow, you're really going out on a limb there. Did your lawyer advise you to call me an ignorant fool? I think you should change your name to Henny Penny.

[astroglide]

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Hydrogen cars are safe, don't worry. Their biggest problem is performance.

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but i thought most of the hydrogen gathered for hydrogen cars was from natural gas, which doesn't exactly make it a problem-solver. ideally we would want it from a ton of nuclear power plants (which don't exist) shooting at water right? but then that's using up uranium.

[wacki]

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Oil more expensive in 2010? Wow, you're really going out on a limb there. Did your lawyer advise you to call me an ignorant fool?

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I said oil will be more expensive because I didn't have any hard figures on me last night. I said crisis levels by 2020 and I stand by that figure. As for C14 levels, pick up a copy of National Geographic to see what it means for the average person. Global warming won't hit us hard by 2020, so I can't include that in a bet. But by 2020 there will be ton's of proof showing that our children are going to be hit pretty hard by global warming. Not one paper in a major peer review journal within the last 10 years says otherwise.

[DesertCat]

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I have a Honda Civic Hybrid.

I get 38-41 mpg and split my driving about 50/50 between city and highway.

I figure to save $500/yr. on gas. The Hybrid is about $3,500 more than a non-hybrid. Hondas last more than seven years. It's a good investment.

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A Civic LX with manual transmission and airbags retails for $15,860. A Civic Hybrid with manual tramsmission, $19,900. That's $4,000 more and it underestimates the hybrid's true cost since dealers are getting premiums for hybrids. My friend paid at least $10k more for his prius than a corolla would have cost.

You are getting 40 mpg, while the DX is at 34.5 mpg (averaging city and highway). You may note that the EPA thinks your highway mpg is higher, but that's because their test methodology is flawed for hybrids. Hybrids struggle to beat non-hybrid's highway mileage because the hybrid equipment is dead weight at a steady cruising speed. So you are about 6 mpg better than a Civic DX.

To save $500 a year in gas, at $2.30 per a gallon means you are saving 220 gallons a year. This means driving 30,000 miles a year. What are you, a cab driver?

At a $4k premium, it's going to take 160k miles before gas savings will equal it (not counting lost interest costs or additional maintainance cost). In reality, the hybrid premiums at current market prices are much higher than $4k, and hybrids simply don't come close to making financial sense.

But that's okay. They are cool cars that offer great psychic benefits to their owners. Eventually the cost of adding hybrid technology will drop to less than $1k and it will become standard equipment on virtually all cars. But until then, just be happy with your cool, but expensive, car.

[wacki]

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Hydrogen cars are safe, don't worry. Their biggest problem is performance.

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but i thought most of the hydrogen gathered for hydrogen cars was from natural gas, which doesn't exactly make it a problem-solver. ideally we would want it from a ton of nuclear power plants (which don't exist) shooting at water right? but then that's using up uranium.

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Which is also why we are so screwed. ITER is in political gridlock. There isn't that much fissionable material around. We will have to mine the moon if we want to ramp up fission. If we create hydrogen from coal power plants we are going to destroy the environment and tar sands are notoriously bad for the atmosphere. If you watch the smalley video, he comments about how hydrogen cars aren't that great because hydrogen simply doesn't store that much energy. If we develop fusion we are good, but like I said it's been in gridlock for over 3 years.

There is a thread in the politics section here:


Linky

In which Nicky G, Zeno, John Feeney, and I take on all of the doubters. You will see that the people argueing with us consistently get every single one of their arguements decimated. It takes a bit for the thread to get started, but once it gets going, it really got going. The skeptic arguements are not only very flimsy, but very repetitive to the point that they are probably just being trolls. They simply don't have much of an arguement.

[Matty]

When they're able to deliver me my groceries at a neglible cost, I will no longer have any reason to drive anywhere (provided we have at least some kind of public transportation for when I'm trying to get laid by someone out of reasonable walking/biking range).

So in my eyes, there's hope.