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#21
02-25-2005, 05:50 PM
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Why I don\'t like this advice
I do not like this bit of advice in HPFAP for online or live games. Here are some reasons why :
1. You are likely to get called, even check-raised with a worse hand. Why not bet and give yourself the chance to win more? Or you may get check-raised on the Turn with a worse Ace. Imagine how you would play the hand if you were in the BB and flopped a weak A or middle pair...would you be preparing to check-raise on Flop or Turn? Most would...I would...thus when you are in late position, you should take advantage of the increased aggression of the SH games. 2. Everyone bets after they have raised pre-Flop and it is checked to them on the Flop. Everybody. With a pair, with an overpair, with nothing. So when you actually have something, you are gaining very little by being deceptive. In fact, when you bet, you are being even more deceptive, because they know you would've bet with crap as well. Your bet means nothing to them, it is not a signal that you have a strong hand. Thus you should bet and get more money in. 3. The main type of players you will fool are the tricky and sharp players who are now going to try to bet on the Turn because you showed weakness. But the problem is that these tricky and sharp players are usually the most able to suspect trickiness in other players, so they are even more apt to suspect you are trapping them. It doesn't pay off. 4. If you bet and they fold, are you sad? Well, yes, in this hand, you are sad. But its a mistake to think of each hand in isolation in shorthanded games. What about the hands when you are betting with no pair, with A3o when the Flop is K-8-5? Are you happy they folded? Yes. So you want to always bet in these situations - you don't gain much by tricking the ones that are most likely to try to take advantage of weakness, and you lost possible bets, and you lose the straightforwardness of winning on the FLop when you got nothing. Let them fold everytime you raised pre-Flop and bet on the Flop. When you have A's, you are sad, when you don't, you are thrilled. When they fold all the time, you will be thrilled more often than you are sad. There are other problems with the shorthanded section of HPFAP and Middle Limit Hold'em (by Brier/Ciaffone) also. I am surprised at how much of their SH advice I disagreed with. Mason Malmuth has a nice shorthanded article in Poker Essays II (I think), they would have been better served putting that article in HPFAP. Some may think that my thinking is because I play online shorthanded games. But actually, I think I've played alot more shorthanded games in live casinos than other people have. For a period of a year, I would only play poker between 4:30am and 1pm, which was the prime target for shorthanded games. So my experience in SH games is both in live and online games. Of course, others can still disagree, but I'm just stating its not a difference between online and live games that I have these opinions. 
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#22
02-25-2005, 05:53 PM
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Re: I have started slowplaying some Top Pair Hands Head-Up, Like-IT?
I don't have a problem with playing this way 1 out 10 times. But in HPFAP, their advice is against extremely aggressive players. Note that they don't say do it once in a while. They say to do it against extremely aggressive players. In today's shorthanded games, extremely aggressive players make up more than 1 out of 10 players.
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#24
02-25-2005, 06:29 PM
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Re: I have started slowplaying some Top Pair Hands Head-Up, Like-IT?
This line isn't as bad as everyone seems to think it is. But it only works vs people who don't smell the [censored] on the flop check.
So this is a play to be made against aggressive donks, sparingly. -JDanz
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#25
02-25-2005, 06:32 PM
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Re: I have started slowplaying some Top Pair Hands Head-Up, Like-IT?
[ QUOTE ]
So this is a play to be made against aggressive donks, sparingly. [/ QUOTE ] I am unclear as to the meaning of this sentence. Do you mean : Use this play sparingly, only against aggressive donks (and use it often against these donks). or Use this play against aggressive donks only, and use it sparingly even against them. If the first sentence is what you mean, then I think you agree with HPFAP. If it is the second sentence, then I think you disagree with HPFAP.
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#26
02-25-2005, 06:42 PM
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Re: I have started slowplaying some Top Pair Hands Head-Up, Like-IT?
I think straight up is the way to go in these hands too. there are just too many things that could go wrong in these situations; opponent could pick up flush draw, straight draw (QJs maybe in your situation) on the turn, spike trips, hit middle pair and two-pair on the river... the agony of runner runner is just too much risk for the very occasional 2 or 3 BB extra.
also, sometimes your opponent will have AQ AJ and down, and will try a check raise somewhere too. in your slowplaying case, you'd lose bets by letting him take the lead.
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#27
02-25-2005, 06:54 PM
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Re: I have started slowplaying some Top Pair Hands Head-Up, Like-IT?
Online, I'm pretty sure I have almost never checked behind a flop with any hand regardless of the board in this situation. The only time I'd even consider it would be if my opponent was a habitual bluffer that was very likley to just check-fold on the flop. These players are a rare breed. If bet into here, I would certaily consider calling along until the river an appropriate line against many LAGish players, but checking behind here throws your meta game all out of whack. In a shorter game against much tougher opponents checking behind with the lead against the blind may be something you need to add to your arsenal (across a wide range of handstrengths of course), but here, its just counterproductive. If you have position and the lead heads up on the flop, BET!
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#28
02-25-2005, 07:07 PM
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Re: I have started slowplaying some Top Pair Hands Head-Up, Like-IT?
[ QUOTE ]
So hero's action here should be the old "bet-bet-bet"? At 5-10 and up, I've been trying to vary my play at least a little, not ALWAYS betting this flop, maybe 1/10 times i'll do it the way he just did. [/ QUOTE ] OK, so don't bet the flop on rare occasions. At least he could have raised the turn. Smells of fancy play syndrome to me. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#29
02-25-2005, 07:10 PM
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Re: I have started slowplaying some Top Pair Hands Head-Up, Like-IT?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So hero's action here should be the old "bet-bet-bet"? At 5-10 and up, I've been trying to vary my play at least a little, not ALWAYS betting this flop, maybe 1/10 times i'll do it the way he just did. [/ QUOTE ] OK, so don't bet the flop on rare occasions. At least he could have raised the turn. Smells of fancy play syndrome to me. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Sounds about right.
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#30
02-25-2005, 07:11 PM
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Re: I have started slowplaying some Top Pair Hands Head-Up, Like-IT?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So hero's action here should be the old "bet-bet-bet"? At 5-10 and up, I've been trying to vary my play at least a little, not ALWAYS betting this flop, maybe 1/10 times i'll do it the way he just did. [/ QUOTE ] OK, so don't bet the flop on rare occasions. At least he could have raised the turn. Smells of fancy play syndrome to me. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Sounds about right. [/ QUOTE ] Dude... change your Avatar. I feel creepy for wanting to look up your skirt. TT [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
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