AJs UTG

[baronzeus]

fyodor,

the river raise was not for value nor was it to knock him off a better hand. i was close between calling and raising simply because if i was unsure if i could get CO to fold. in the end, i decided that in my opinion i could get CO to fold a mid pair often enough when it was two bets to him.

also, while hands like 34dd are perfectly likely (T2dd almost never checks this turn), i think a hand like QJo or different, random diamonds are much more likely as part of his range .


finally, i tend to give a random unknown at 30/60 slightly more credit for a hand than at lower limits, simply because they play better (imo 30/60 is far harder to beat than 20/40 and lower).


in general, i think his line is VERY consistent with a draw and very inconsistent with a made hand. at 30/60 (and im guessing at most other limits ) this turn gets checked very infrequently with a pair. unless Button had a 2 or CO is willing to call two cold with mid pair, the raise seems pretty good. no?


anyhow those were my thoughts when i played this hands. let me know what you think.

[TStoneMBD]

i think most players would raise the flop with a pair when a player is behind him, so i would just call the river instead of raising since the CO hasnt shown flop strength. i rarely make these types of raises tho so it might just be i dont understand the value of them.

[fyodor]

When I made my first post I had stupidly overlooked the CO still being alive when you made your raise. After I posted I started reading the thread and then noticed. So I saw your post about folding a mid pair and figured you meant the CO.

But I still think your play is too much of a parlay vs 2 unknowns. You are betting that the guy not doing the betting is the guy who poses the most danger and that he will fold rather than call 2. That he will fold is the best part of your bet. Given he has done nothing but call the entire hand, I doubt he has much and I agree he is likely to fold a small pair to 2 bets. He may not fold though and he may not even have a pair and would have folded anyhow. You've paid an extra bet though and still have to hope button was bluffing.

Button 3 betting is your least likely worry but as you see, it can happen. Now it's 2 extra bets.

It may very well be the correct play. It certainly would be if you had reads on both opponents and were thus more certain of the outcome. I just find unknows to be idiots and calling down would be my default. Could be a big leak on my part.

Maybe I'll try to do some math on this one. It's an interesting situation. And semi-common.

[oreogod]

I like it, you were probably a head of both of them though...but I dont think that takes away from your raise and it probably was the right move. U have to call the 3bet as is...its a pretty retarded play on buttons part (well depends how u look at it...but I think hes definitly spewing there)

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'll try to do some math on this one. It's an interesting situation. And semi-common.

[/ QUOTE ]


i'm glad an experienced player like yourself has found this interesting. let me know what you find.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'll try to do some math on this one. It's an interesting situation. And semi-common.

[/ QUOTE ]


i'm glad an experienced player like yourself has found this interesting. let me know what you find.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would hope that this is, at the very least, "interesting" if not completely insane. i'm quite surprised that nobody has said the play is totally retarded getting only about 4 to 1 on your money.

is this seriously standard?

[I.Rowboat]

[ QUOTE ]
the river raise was not for value nor was it to knock him off a better hand. i was close between calling and raising simply because if i was unsure if i could get CO to fold. in the end, i decided that in my opinion i could get CO to fold a mid pair often enough when it was two bets to him.

also, while hands like 34dd are perfectly likely (T2dd almost never checks this turn), i think a hand like QJo or different, random diamonds are much more likely as part of his range .


finally, i tend to give a random unknown at 30/60 slightly more credit for a hand than at lower limits, simply because they play better (imo 30/60 is far harder to beat than 20/40 and lower).


in general, i think his line is VERY consistent with a draw and very inconsistent with a made hand. at 30/60 (and im guessing at most other limits ) this turn gets checked very infrequently with a pair. unless Button had a 2 or CO is willing to call two cold with mid pair, the raise seems pretty good. no?


anyhow those were my thoughts when i played this hands. let me know what you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those were exactly my thoughts when I read your OP. I would put the villain on QJo or flush draw, and raise to squeeze the CO out of the hand. If the villain shows you a better hand than busted straight/flush, well, nothing you can do about that. Well played.

[Victor]

k.i.s.s.

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
k.i.s.s.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha yes sir.


everyone hates my fancy plays [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

one of these days im gonna make a fancy-shmancy play and everyone's gonna love it!!!! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]



results: he had QdJd and MHIG.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]

results: he had QdJd and MHIG.

[/ QUOTE ]

why didn't you valuecap?