Preflop bluff turns into money by the river

[shant]

I hope people who make these ridiculous, variance plays preflop and suck out on the river go broke or a piano falls on them.

[radek2166]

Entity and I used to chat alot. I dont think he is prone to tilting. I think you have asked for advice got it and you still try to tell us how good you played.

This hand was played poorly. Just in the fact that u said that the button is ur classic calling station. Hes coming along for the ride. U got lucky and are trying to justify it.

So if you dont hit the runner runner. What do you have? A classic case of spewage.

Must of the posters around here dont play ABC poker. They have learned deception. I seriously doubt many 3-bet a lag with a CLASSIC CALLING STATION behind them with middle suited connectors.

Like Entity said the play sucked!!! that is the bottom line.

[Entity]

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As for the spewing/getting bored posts... am I the only one who varies their play? I don't play ABC poker all the time, otherwise it is too easy to play against me.

I make plays like this ocassionally when I have a read on someone that I can use against them. Plays outside the generic plays.

Again, I'm just curious... is there anyone out there besides me who isn't an automaton?

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What the hell did you want from posting this hand? It wasn't advice because you've ignored it.

You're going to have a holy parlay necessary when you 3-bet a hand like 7-high preflop:

1) Button and Blinds cannot pick up a hand.
2) Maniac must not have a good hand.
3) Maniac must not hit a hand on the flop or have any reasonable spectre of a draw to continue with postflop.

If you had posted a blind in the CO, I think the choice would be a bit closer and I wouldn't hate the 3-bet there, as it's an interesting situation. But here, you have nothing invested and consequently have to turn 7-high into a +EV hand when 3-betting against an aggressive player.

If Button was an 11% VPIP'er (note that in your original damned post) then that changes things but not enough to make this play decent; at that point, it's only marginally retarded.

Pick a better damned spot and stop being condescending to those who tried to provide advice, especially those who are willing to try new things and play differently than standard ABC poker, who still manage to hate your play on every street besides the river.

Rob

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Getting pissed off isn't the answer dude. How easily do you go on tilt at the poker table, LOL? What I wanted from this were two things. First, to see if anyone else sees the value in this type of play, and second, how my play was ON AND AFTER THE FLOP, which no one seemed to comment about. The fact is that I made the preflop play which no one likes. I see that it isn't a standard play, and that is clear to anyone that has played for more than a month. Comment on the rest of the hand using the information I have given.

I disagree with the holy parlay theory, otherwise I wouldn't have made the play. Simply, you are going to get very few calls in that situation behind you. Considering the nature of both the button and BB, I felt confident in making the play. I agree with both 1 and 3. I think that 2 should be adjusted by saying a VERY good hand. KQ is a good hand, but if an Ace flops he's folding to my bet on the flop. So really, by making this play, I only need him not to hit his hand. Since this happens more often than not, this makes the play good. As we saw in the hand, he folded to my flop bet. If button didn't have a hand, it would have worked exactly as I'd planned. I just had some bad luck that button picked up a big hand. In any case, I estimate that the preflop play will work over 67% of the time in the situation presented, making the preflop play fine. If you consider the top 10% of hands to be hands that can call the 3 bet here, I'm a 3:1 favorite here that no one will pick up a callable hand. I'm good with that whole situation.

Lots of damns in there... I hope you walked away after this post and took some deep breaths. You really tilt, man. REALLY tilt. Wow! Anyway, I did say that I forgot to put all the information in the post, and I apologized for that... relax. Jesus [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Finally, I think that spot was good, and unless you can give me more than your first post, which was what, two sentences? about why this wasn't a good spot, I would do it again 1 time in 20 in the same situation. And nowhere in any of my posts was I condescending. The fact that you are currently on tilt probably has a lot to do with your interpretation of the situation. If, however, after you've calmed down, you still feel like I was condescending to you, then you have my deepest apologies, as I never intended that.

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I swear a lot, but tilt very little. You should see me in person; I've been known to make sailors blush.

I just found your post to be an incredibly poorly played hand that you were justifying by "mixing it up" and asking, condescendingly, if anyone here did anything other than play ABC poker. It didn't seem to have much of a purpose.

[ZootMurph]

Kailia Marie... I chose this time because I thought the situation was ripe. Again, he could be playing a LOT of possible hands here. My whole idea was that you miss the flop 2 out of 3 times, and knowing he will fold any flop he misses, I will win a nice pot 2 out of 3 times. So, I'm going into the hand as a 2:1 favorite against him. I raise instead of calling to push everyone else out.

As to the turn... my thought process was to push people out up to the turn. I was going to be done with the hand, so when I had something, even if I have a 1% chance of him folding, it is better than check/calling. I agree the FE here is probably 0%, but I have also know he isn't raising me, so the result is the same here.

Finally, I disagree with you about varying preflop play. I think that is a very common error. If I do nothing but 3 bet with AA, KK, QQ, and AK, then I won't get a whole lot of action postflop. Your preflop play sets up your postflop action, and therefore is just as important, in my opinion, as the rest of the hand. Therefore, varying it is also just as important.

[crunchy1]

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Finally, I disagree with you about varying preflop play. I think that is a very common error. If I do nothing but 3 bet with AA, KK, QQ, and AK, then I won't get a whole lot of action postflop. Your preflop play sets up your postflop action, and therefore is just as important, in my opinion, as the rest of the hand. Therefore, varying it is also just as important.

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This couldn't be less true at the Party 2/4.

[UVaHoo]

Seems like you're missing the point. No one here is only suggesting a preflop 3-bet with AA-QQ or AK. I'm sure against a maniac, most people here would be fine with AA-77 or so, AK-A8, KQ-KT, and any other hand with decent showdown value. They're suggesting the play with 76s is wrong because you're in a heads-up or 3-way pot with a hand that has absolutely no showdown value, and could easily lose even if you pair something.

Also, am I the only one who has trouble believing that the maniac plays 47% of his hands preflop and then always folds to one bet if he misses something on the flop? Not doubting your read, but I haven't seen too many maniacs like this.

I would save the raising 67s preflop for either the very occasional play utg at a very loose, passive table, or on the button after umpteen limpers.

[silkyslim]

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I don't think middle suited connectors are the type of hand you want to isolate a LAG with. You need hands with high card strength and showdown value (UI).

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I agree, that, in general, you don't want to do this. However, there are times when situations like this are favorable and this is one of those situations. Slightly -EV immediately, definitely +EV long term just from the play variance and action you'll get later from people seeing this play.

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maybe at a higher limit where people are paying attention. I dont see how this could be +EV in the long run. Again, you are isolating with a speculative hand which is not what you want to do. You have a LAG who will probably see a showdown with many many hands. You have a calling station who you cant push off a hand. Maybe, maybe you can do this with weak tighties who are paying attention but not here.

You sucked out runner runner. This is worse than the two outers river suck outs that are often lamented in the micro-limit posts. Playing a hand like this has two possible values, winning or advertising "looseness" to get you action in hte future. With the rapidity that players change tables this type of play has limited value. Also you may get caught between a raising war. What value does your hand have then - you have to fold it and nobody knows what you held. This is an EV negative play and any advertising value does not make it positive. You should be embarassed about it and you even played the flop incorrectly.
Entity can defend himself, but he was absolutely right that you are not here to learn but brag about a suck out. How does that make you any better than a LAG?

[Catt]

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My whole idea was that you miss the flop 2 out of 3 times, and knowing he will fold any flop he misses, I will win a nice pot 2 out of 3 times. So, I'm going into the hand as a 2:1 favorite against him.

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This is so awesome.

[thejameser]

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Any thoughts on this play?

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You seem jaded by the results. You also seem to be completely convinced this is such a wonderful play that you will not listen to some good posters' opinions. Varying play is important, but how you vary it is equally important. You must pick your spots; here, you picked a bad one, got lucky and are justifying it by the results.