$200 in PP, now what?

[@bsolute_luck]

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i play %25 of my hands, watch people with crap win pots, and when i get a hand it either doesn't get any help from flop, turn, river, it gets stomped by a monster, or merely wins the blinds to a folded table.

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Far be it for me to give suggestions, considering I'm relatively new to the poker world compared to some other 2+2ers, but remember, limit hold-em is a game of value bets, not trapping. You don't have the two mixed up, you just don't seem to be pumping enough value out of the fish. I'm not saying you're playing incorrectly, but it sounds as if to me you're calling too much post-flop, and not matching your pre-flop aggression in order to make the other players pay.

Of course, it could just be a cold deck. But since you have SSH, you might as well read it while you take your break from poker, especially the parts on overcards, betting for value on the river, and protecting your hand. And as always, keep an eye on pot odds and pot equity.

Don't get discouraged!

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thanks contentless. i keep posting my early playing thoughts for other new beginners that might be going through what i'm going through. they can hear someone's thinking, steps to learn, frustrations, and successes. Hopefully along the way, they'll also hear from more experienced players.

I was thinking about my discouragement last night. I have actually decided it is a good thing I'm in a downswing. Whether it's a bad run of cards or bad play, I can't tell right now, which is what I have to work on.

This downswing early is forcing me to really examine my game. If I kept winning, then I would think I knew what I was doing, and would have blamed it on cards instead of looking at my game.

All in all, I've gotten over my discouragement and look forward to better establishing my poker game.

[oreogod]

I think a downswing is normal to all beginning poker players. Sure, some start out and hit a few big pots early...but I would rather have the downswing early and fix my game faster.

If u are pretty sure you are beat, lay it down if its going to cost u to see a showdown. (I had KK in one of my last couple hands, 3 bad players were helping me pump the pot, they capped it...flop cam A rag rag, I bet out got raised, by the time it came back to me they had capped it and I folded. I would have lost to AK. One guy had QQ the other AQ. Its an extreme example but I knew I was beat. Saved a good amount of money folding that, but I raised it up when I had the best of it)

Anyway three big leaks that used to be mine, not folding enough, chasing small pots (hell, chasing in general), not willing to let overcards such as AK see the muck, etc. I can only count 3-4 times in the last 2 months I made a bad laydown (we are counting out of all the times I was beat and knew it...there were times when I didnt have odds and would have hit my miracle draw)...making a bad laydown is not the best thing in the world, but once u get better at this game, u start to make less of them, at least that should be the way it goes.

Takes time to be a winner in this game. Howard Lederer says it took him 2 years. And even Phil Ivey had to learn at some point. So keep trucking and reading. Give it a couple months, with a lot of studying, you will find you self to be a much better poker player than u are at this point (not knocking anything, but it would be true of anyone.)

[SheridanCat]

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I think a downswing is normal to all beginning poker players. Sure, some start out and hit a few big pots early...but I would rather have the downswing early and fix my game faster.


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Just to be very clear. Downswings, some very large, are normal to all poker players good or bad. Even very good players will experience 100BB downswings. The key is not to panic.

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making a bad laydown is not the best thing in the world, but once u get better at this game, u start to make less of them, at least that should be the way it goes.


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Obviously, the fold with KK you describe was correct given the action but....

Be careful not to become a player who congratulates himself on making great laydowns. The reason is that often you won't know you made a bad laydown. That's a brick in the road to weak tight.

Regards,

T

[beginnersluck13]

Hey @bsolute,
Just wanted to say, as a beginner like yourself, all these posts are very helpful. And if it makes you feel any better atleast you are getting all this advice before it is too late, I went down 250 in the fall at college, and now realize I obviously didn't know what I was doing. Purchased my first books, I don't remember if you said you read this, But Jones' book is very good I think, great job of explaining things for us beginners. Keep on keepin' on.
Thanks to the advanced guys who are contributing to help us beginners as well.

A

[oreogod]

I say a beginner should stick to Holdem Poker by Sklansky and the new Getting Started in Holdem book by Ed Miller that will be out in a few weeks.

Then get on to SSHE. That book will help your game quite a bit if u understand it. Then read TOP, reread SSHE, reread TOP and when u get to the higher limits read HPFAP and Middle Limit holdem.

[@bsolute_luck]

SSH was the first/only book i have read so far. as a newbie to poker, a lot of it i didn't understand for a while. posting here and playing play money got me to understand some of the basics (as much as can be applied to play money anyways).

i haven't completely finished the book, but again posting here on people's hands and listening to that advice really got me prepared and helped me learn the topics in SSH better. i'm playing .25/.5, thought it was boring, did okay at .5/1, but i think i moved up too quickly. the money at the .5/1 got me excited, but i lost 30BB which isn't big and is "normal" for people who know the difference between a bad run of cards and poor play.

since i didn't know the difference, i dropped back down to .25/.5, and have improved my look at the tables (different ways people play/disguise their hands). i focused a lot on my preflop play before jumping into real money, but now i see how important postflop play is and how unsure i am of my play. so i'm gonna stay at this level for a while 'til i get more comfortable with my postflop play.

update: i only got to play an hour last night, but the cards were definitely better as well as the flops. i was up 14BB/hr when i had to stop. i know it's not a lot or anything, but, while the game has gotten more complex with the more i know, i can see my knowledge of the game improving.

[MrBlueNose]

I see one major concern this early, and it's patience. You mentioned how you were impatient and started playing more hands when you were cold-decked, how you started two tabling because you were getting bored....hell, you even jumped up a limit after just two nights of play(both winning nights).

Stick at .25/.50. If you're bored, listen to music while you play, or make the conscious decision to two-table and do it. Log in 5000 hands just at .25/.50. Don't even consider moving up, not even if you think you're "crushing" the game. After that 5000, look at your stats. Also share with them others, and get a discussion going on whether you're ready to move up a level, or should stick and play 5000 more at .25/.50.

A lot of people go through the same thing you have(and this is not a knock). Pick up SSHE, think they're good to go, win a few hands and get cocky/confident, then lose to "bad beats" and get nervous and frustrated.

Learn from it all. Study hard and it will pay off. Don't play impatient or frustrated. When someone with A6o who shouldn't even be in the pot spikes an A on the river to kill your KK....hey, that's poker. What I like to do is just play through the week, then take two hours on the weekend to just read through all my hand histories when it's not as fresh. Then I may have a different mindset/viewpoint, and be able to see any hands I played wrong.

Just take it easy, and be patient. Patience is the key. Also keep with the updates here, I found them interesting/entertaining to read.

[BaronVonCP]

welcome to the real world of poker.
I sit in games where I am fairly sure that I am one of the best players at the table, yet i still get beat down pretty bad every once in a while. And by every once in a while, i mean a lot.

[@bsolute_luck]

MrBlue: i definitely agree with what you posted. beginners, use the following explanation as a learning tool:

by reading SSH, you will not suddenly master poker even if you start out with HUGE winnings. after i had read and posted here for a little, i thought "i'm better than most people, time to go take their money"...and i did...for 2 nights (300 hands max.)

even after studying a while on my preflop play, i found i had a lot to learn. more of the "why"s: why to play KJo from one position or another. why to reraise JJ from a position instead of just calling. and i found i had a HELL of a lot to learn about postflop play (which is where the real money is made anyways).

i thought i should be easiely crushing and when the deck went cold and i wanted to play more hands, i jumped to multitabling then up a level- AND THIS IS AFTER READING ABOUT POKER FOR 2 MONTHS AND PLAYING REAL MONEY FOR 1 DAY!!!!

what a dolt! well anyways, now i see how much more i have to learn and am actually excited to play .25/.5. i'm not bored because i've learned a lot more about the game and am eager to put those new developing skills to the test.

[@bsolute_luck]

okay i got in about 2 hours of poker at .25/.5 Paradise last night....and had an utterly crappy time of it.

cards were again cold, so i was frustrated. it seems when i get frustrated (maybe others can relate) i start rationalizing why to play less than good hands ie: A6s from UTG when you KNOW you're going to get raised. or T9s from EP.

i did do this a couple times, but only once did it really cost me: JTs from EP. I called. Flop came 9hJdTd (don't hold me to the exact suitings of the cards, but i do remember that none of those suits were in my hand and there were 2 suited cards on the table). so i've already got myself in a pickle i could have avoided. well i lost the hand of course to either a flush or straight, i can't remember.

all frustrations and losing aside (-20BB), I did better letting strong hands that were losing go and not taking marginal hands in small pots too far. hopefully the poker gods will be kind to me at some point and let me win some hands...