The world should be kissing our feet!

[Cyrus]

I mean, you are practicing your bluffs, right ?

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It just fascinates me that the US is so vilified by the world and even people in our own country.

[/ QUOTE ] You are easily fascinated. There's nothing mysterious about this. People the world over admire the American system of governance, its people's intrinsic values and its culture. (Do I need to scare up "polls" to show any of this? I hope not.)

At the same time, people the world over resent American imperialism. You should read a couple of dozen quotes from American political leaders of the 20th and 19th century about "America's destiny in the world" (read: the need to assert and project its power over the globe). Perhaps you'd be fascinated.

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Don’t they realize that the only thing that has kept them from enslavement is the US Constitution?

[/ QUOTE ] If you are referring to the American people, you are putting cart before horse. If you are referring to foreign people, the U.S. constitution had nothing to do with any of the "humane interventions abroad" (=military action) that America engaged throughout its history.

Nations do not have "feelings", señor Iglesias! They have interests.

...Fascinating, innit?

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Imagine for a moment that all that power was in a monarchy.

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If forced to choose, yes, I'd much rather have American imperialism than Nazi or Soviet imperialism. This is a no brainer. I'd rather have a democracy oppressing me than an despotic nation. For obvious, selfish reasons.

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Was there a more colonial or imperial president than Teddy Roosevelt?

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I'll say No! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] And thank you.

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It’s very possible that without [the US constitution] FDR or Truman could have cut a deal with the Soviets and the Chinese to slice the world up three ways.

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So, the constitution stopped them - and not the stone cold assessment of the power balance and the prospects for a hot war, either conventional or nuclear? I'm fascinated with your fixation on the US constitution as the end-all and be-all in world affairs!

But I suppose you are not aware of the fact that the United States did actually "slice up the world" with the Soviets in a series of "deals"! Most publicly, in a little conference held in a little city inside the USSR called Yalta. (You didn't know that? Fascinating.)

[The once and future king]

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in 39 I’d have to rank Britain a distant third behind Japan and Germany,

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Utterly and totaly wrong.

Germany may have had a handfull of kickarse battleships, but this a navy does not make. Note how most of these Battleships spent there time in port.

The British had naval deployements in the Pacific+Atlantic+ the Med, we still had an Empire then remember.
The Japs had just one deyployment in the Pacific. If the Brits had combined there whole Naval force in 39 and put it in to one theatre, no one could have stoped it.

The Naval bases we had in the Caribean would have been our spring board for the recapture of Yankland. British and German forces would have Blitzkrieged to New Mexico with French forces holding our gaines and doing some impressive catering to bost morale. Canada would have obviously fought on ourside and this would have forced you to fight on 3 fronts.

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Actually it was P-51 Mustangs, P40 Warhawks, Curtis Avengers, in all over 5000 aircraft were sent via the lend lease act; almost 1500 were sent before 1941.

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LOL 99% Of this stuff went to Russia. Utterly insignificant numbers of US made warplanes took part in the most significant confrontation between Britain and Germany which was the Battle of Britain.

[The once and future king]

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The Yanks+Rusikeis+Brits had a hard time stoping the Germans, and would have been even harder if they hadnt had that strategic tard Hitler in charge.

Now imagine that in 39 Germany allied with Britan+France. Britain still rules the waves, germans lead the way in armements. Yankland was docile and unprepared, we could have had you easy.

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Hitler had absolutely no intention of giving squat to the Brits or the French nor did he want their "help" in any way shape or form if conquered (the Vichy gov't offered Hilter their military help and he flatly turned them down). It was all about the Germanic race from the very begining and never included the Brits or any other non-Germanic nation. Learn your history before you spout off.

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You total moraaaaan. This whole thread is about HYPOTHETICAL and IMAGINED situations.

Perhaps try to comprehend the nature of a thread before spouting off.

Now imagine that in 39 Germany allied with Britan+France.

This was your clue you retard.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Democracy was not invented or first implemented in the US. I think US should thank Oooooold Europe [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img].

[player24]

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ummm... are you kidding?

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ummm...I'm not sure how a question can be "kidding"?

In any event, what do you think we should we be doing about our relationships with these countries?

[slamdunkpro]

Sigh,,, I suppose I have to spell it out .....

Yes I know about Yalta - I was speaking in broader hypothetical terms.

[slamdunkpro]

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Utterly and totaly wrong.

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Hmmm, I don't know about that - In 39 Japan had made the jump to projecting power via Aircraft carrier with modern monowing aircraft. I believe at that point they had 7 or 8 carriers. The Brits had an aging surface fleet with I believe 2 carriers – Ark Royal and I can/t think of the other one except that it was a converted vessel. Both of these were stocked with WW1 Swordfish biplanes. Sheer numbers didn’t help at Pearl Harbor or at Leate Gulf. Hell even the Bismarck was really done in by those antique Swordfish, so with 7 carriers plus modern support ships the Japanese really were #1 at that point.

The German battleships spent so much time in port after the Bismarck went down due to their fear of aircraft. The Turpitz was infract done in by bombers. Also don't forget about Germany's Uboat fleet.

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LOL 99% Of this stuff went to Russia.

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LOL - Since Russia wasn't involed in WW2 until September of 40 and lend/lease was a program between Britan and America ....well.

[Felix_Nietsche]

I concure tha England did have the most powerful navy in the world at the start of WW2. However, England had a shortfall of destroyers which were needed to fight the U-boats (a 40,000 ton battleship is not very effective against a U-boat!).

The USA/England announce a trade where the USA would give destroyers to Britain in exchange for access to naval bases. On a side note, the Japanese navy also had a shortage of destroyers and because of this the US Navy submarine force was able to smash the Japanese supply lines. No one knows whether these destroyers saved Britain from the U-Boats but they certainly helped.

Personally, I think what saved Britain was Hitler. At Dunkirk, Germany could have destroyed the heart of the Britsh Army. Then Germany could have:
1. Dropped paratroopers into England seizing a port/airfield.
2. Pour German troops into England via air transport with superior German airpower keeping the English Navy/Airforce at bay.
3. Send German heavy equipment (tanks/artillary) by sea into England under the protection of German airpower. During the Battle of Britain, England was forced to withdraw all ships bigger than destroyers because of German airpower. Even if England sank 50% of heavy equipment transports, the Germans would have enough firepower to roll over the remains of the English Army.
4. Once enough heavy equipment had reached the shores of England, the Germans could attack London.

But since Hitler screwed up Dunkirk, the Britsh Army survived largely intact where they could make a German paratrooper assault too risky.

[Felix_Nietsche]

Democracy was not invented or first implemented in the US. I think US should thank Oooooold Europe .
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Shouldn't the USA by thanking the ancient Greeks rather than Oooooold Europe. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Felix_Nietsche]

Hmmm, I don't know about that - In 39 Japan had made the jump to projecting power via Aircraft carrier with modern monowing aircraft. I believe at that point they had 7 or 8 carriers. The Brits had an aging surface fleet with I believe 2 carriers
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Good point. Aircraft Carriers were the queens of the sea in WW2. You just convinced me.
Japan's navy was smaller but MORE powerful than Britain's navy at the start of WW2.