Backing Deal REDUX and update

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
If you beat 15/30 for 2BB/100 it's pretty safe to assume you can beat 5/10 for 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's a pretty ridiculous assumption.

[semipro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you beat 15/30 for 2BB/100 it's pretty safe to assume you can beat 5/10 for 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's a pretty ridiculous assumption.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, instead of critiquing everyone else's comments, how about some constructive comments from you?

[ChicagoTroy]

[ QUOTE ]
REALLY!!! You mean, i DON'T tell them that I expect to lose some of the money that they may choose to invest with me???
Now, how about something actually useful?

[/ QUOTE ]

Something useful? Sure, no problem. Let's start with an explanation of what "EV" (expected value) means.

EV indicates what one expects to make over the long term, not what might happen in the short. If you say you are -EV in tournaments, you are saying you expect to lose in the long term.

That means, when you say playing in tournaments is -EV for you, you are saying nobody should give you money to play in them, since you are a long term loser.

I'll even leave out a joke about somebod calling themselves "semipro" misusing as simple a term as EV.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you beat 15/30 for 2BB/100 it's pretty safe to assume you can beat 5/10 for 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's a pretty ridiculous assumption.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, instead of critiquing everyone else's comments, how about some constructive comments from you?

[/ QUOTE ]

pointing out errors in others' comments = constructive.

[cbfair]

[ QUOTE ]

Results-
Through this writing on December 28, starting the BR w/$3000, the roll is now up to $7700, for a $4700 profit, of which I unfortunately will be splitting half of w/my two backers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's what I don't understand:

You say you have $5350 BR ($3000 + 1/2 of $4700), you also say you are a profitable ring game player. It's unclear whether you want this backing deal to cover your ring play or big MTTs (you've said both), but I don't see how it's relevant to my concern one way or the other.

My concern is that a profitable ring player with experience at higher limits and a 500BB roll for 5/10 should be able to move up to 30/60 over a relatively brief time; regardless of the validity of Rudbaek's assumptions, his theory holds up. So, without accusing you personally of any impropriety, this request seems spurious at best. The bottom line for me is that your whole story doesn't quite add up.

[semipro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Results-
Through this writing on December 28, starting the BR w/$3000, the roll is now up to $7700, for a $4700 profit, of which I unfortunately will be splitting half of w/my two backers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's what I don't understand:

You say you have $5350 BR ($3000 + 1/2 of $4700), you also say you are a profitable ring game player. It's unclear whether you want this backing deal to cover your ring play or big MTTs (you've said both), but I don't see how it's relevant to my concern one way or the other.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of the $3K original BR, only $1K of that was mine, so currently of the $7700, my part is $3300. With that BR, yes I can continue to be a profitable player at 5/10, but I want to test the waters in some of the bigger MTT's. My BR won't support the buy-ins for the big MTT's, so I have taken on backers in an attempt to enter the big MTT's while at the same time still playing ring games.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]

Of the $3K original BR, only $1K of that was mine, so currently of the $7700, my part is $3300. With that BR, yes I can continue to be a profitable player at 5/10, but I want to test the waters in some of the bigger MTT's. My BR won't support the buy-ins for the big MTT's, so I have taken on backers in an attempt to enter the big MTT's while at the same time still playing ring games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the MTTs in which you plan to be -EV. Gotcha.

As others have noted, this is truly bizarre.

You don't need a bankroll for the ring games. $3300 is enough for 5/10, and if you play 10-15 hours a week you'll probably double this over the next month, allowing you to play 10/20. Within two or three months, you're golden. Yeah, so you ended up giving away some profits to your initial set of backers -- who allowed you to do exactly what you wanted, assume risk you couldn't afford. (God forbid they profit from taking that risk.) Anyway, it's moot. It's over.

So you're okay for the ring games, leaving just this high-stakes MTT nonsense. Which you said is a pipe dream anyway. So if it's a pipe dream, what's wrong with promising backers the same kind of profit returns? The reason you feel you got "gypped" with the ring games is that you knew you were +EV. Here, you think you're -EV. So you're not going to get gypped after all -- they are.

So what's the problem again?

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you beat 15/30 for 2BB/100 it's pretty safe to assume you can beat 5/10 for 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's a pretty ridiculous assumption.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, even if he can only beat it for 2BB/100 it will take him 10 days to pass the limit and head on.

And do you really think the skill difference between 5/10 and 15/30 is so small that a 1BB improvement at one third the stakes isn't possible?

The final resting place of many Party TAGs is (4-8)-tabling 15/30, all TAGs at 5/10 are so to speak not only passing through, but also presumably significantly less skilled than someone temporarily stepping down from 15/30.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]

As others have noted, this is truly bizarre.


[/ QUOTE ]

that the original poster doesn't understand how weird this is makes me wonder if there's a lot of other stuff he/she doesn't understand as well.

[Vee Quiva]

First of all I would suggest that you exercise some patience. It sounds like you are a successful player and you should get to the higher limits eventually if you keep winning. It seems like your personal makeup will not allow you to be happy taking on profit sharing agreements. You are probably better off on your own.

As for the multitable tournaments....There are a few options. First of all the WSOP has 100 times more satellites than any other event. Enter online or while you're in Vegas. That is the way to turn your small bankroll into a large one.

Also you may want to search the archives for Greg Raymer's deal. He did something where he sold shares of stock in himself to his backers. I believe Moneymaker also sold pieces of himself once he got to the big tournament.

Finally you need to realize that even though you are doing all the work, your backers are taking most of the risk. They deserve to get paid for the risk they are taking.