44 raises limpers from the Button

[hate]

You can use CDC hands to justify any play with any two cards on any street. I still don't see it, and the only times I see hands posted about such things, something hits on the flop or their 1 in 10 chance to set fills up by the river because they hit some crappy bd straight draw. As for Carmine's explanation checking through to see a free turn, you've got a 22:1 chance to set on the turn. Is paying another 1SB up front for the possibility of seeing a free turn really worth it?

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
As for Carmine's explanation checking through to see a free turn, you've got a 22:1 chance to set on the turn. Is paying another 1SB up front for the possibility of seeing a free turn really worth it?

[/ QUOTE ]

In and of itself, no. It is not.

But, there are other benefits of this play. You must add them all together.

[hate]

Like what? So far I've seen a CDC hand, which in and of itself means little. a 9:1 shot to set against an easily dominated hand where 2 of the 5 have random hands and will likely drop off? Would you be doing the same play against 3 EP limpers? So far I haven't seen benefits other than the farfetched chance that all 5 opponents blank on the flop or fold their bottom pair crap because they think you're strong here, and seeing a free turn.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
Again I ask - Why raise the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the pot is big. Anyone with an ace will be drawing nearly dead and call you down.

It's Party, someone might even have QQ and call down. It happens, just raise, people love to call.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
Like what? So far I've seen a CDC hand, which in and of itself means little. a 9:1 shot to set against an easily dominated hand where 2 of the 5 have random hands and will likely drop off? Would you be doing the same play against 3 EP limpers? So far I haven't seen benefits other than the farfetched chance that all 5 opponents blank on the flop or fold their bottom pair crap because they think you're strong here, and seeing a free turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

We mock what we do not understand

[CallMeIshmael]

-Getting a free turn card
-Building a pot with a hand that does well in mulitway pots
-Opponents are more likely to call down drawing dead
-You are probably giving up very little (if any) equity in this move
-Greater postflop action in raised pots helps to make up for what we are losing in implieds

[brettbrettr]

Lately I like this play more from the CO to buy the button, then hopefully see the turn free. I seem to be getting bet into A LOT when the flop comes sans ace.

[hate]

Yeah that's right, I'll mock most every CDC hand, because it's 3rd level table complexity on a live hand where he provides little if no supplementary information as he preflop 3-bets 74o.

[hate]

You're not giving up any equity on this hand because you don't have equity to raise as it is. Implieds more than make this a profitable call, but against 5 RANDOM hands you've got less than a percent of equity, and like I posted in that other thread, if you don't hit you're not continuing, so this equity number is somewhat fallacious. Building a pot that does well multiway? What, are you joking? Because right now, pokerstove is just about done dropping a load on your does well multiway explanation.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
a 9:1 shot to set against an easily dominated hand where 2 of the 5 have random hands and will likely drop off?

[/ QUOTE ]

You aren't easily dominated, it's a 7.5:1 shot, and it's fairly unlikely that 2 of the hands will fold, but if they do, that's ok too.

Raising with pairs from the Button after a few limpers is a concept mentioned in HEPFAP and other texts. The basic premise is that you bloat the pot preflop, giving people correct odds to call on the flop and turn with lesser hands than they normally would. It has other values as well, as it makes your range of hands harder to read, can get you more action on your bigger hands (and your sets), and will occasionally allow you to see the turn (and sometimes river) for a .5SB investment that you made while your equity was good.

Yes, it cuts into your implied odds. But in situations where your opponents are decent, it can work to your advantage as well. You just need to learn to identify such situations and exploit them.

Rob