Hand to Talk About

[VeryTnA]

With your super tight image, a bet on the turn would ended the hand and cost you EV. I think you played the hand perfectly based the info you gave. It must have been a tough game for the button (or late player) not to represent KQ and fire a shot on the flop. Would you have then called?

[Mark Heide]

Mason,

Since five players limped in you can not bet because it is likely that someone has something that fits better into that board, so the check is correct, giving you the chance to make a better hand and gauging the strength of your opponents hands, plus giving someone the chance to make a second best hand.

On the turn, you can't bet because if someone has the other queen, they may want to raise, possibly knocking out second best hands. If someone did have a queen, it would be better for them to bet and hopefully others will call making the pot larger.

Betting on the river is correct since no one bet the turn. It's obvious, that the hands are pretty weak. Otherwise, no one may bet at all.

Good Luck

Mark

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi SKP:

If you haven't made a move in quite a while, you should check.

What if you're against players who are simply unaware. That was basically the case here.

I also disagree that image plays much of a roll here. It's a scary board and they will tend to call you based on the value of their hand.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Mike:

In Sklansky on Poker there is a chapter about the protected pot. This is a concept that comes into play on the last round of betting in a many handed pot. So even though there has been no bet on the flop or fourth street, it makes it less likely that someone will bluff.

Best wishes,
mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Mike:

30-60 most players bet 2 pair on the end on this board when no one bets that straight board.

There's a big difference between botom two and top two.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Everyone:

SKP has a good point here. One error that many players do make is that they don't take into account the number of players still to act behind them. However, in this spot, most players will be aware of this idea.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Ed:

While what you say was certainly true in this case, are we being too results dependent?

Best wishes,
Mason

[Ed S.]

Hello Mason,

I think you expected someone to bet since this was a good and loose enough game from your perspective. That's why you did what you did. So when no one bets it on the turn you have to ask yourself did you lose action on the turn or would they have all folded. Now if your answer is that you are pretty sure you would have had 1 or 2 call your turn bet then a turn bet was in order. But from how you describe it and by your take of the game you took the "chance" that someone would bet it and you would check-raise it. That didn't happen. So You have to figure everyone is still way behind or someone is traping. So anyways no one went for the bet with the king hitting. So you've might have lost some bets if you stil thought you might get callers if you went and bet anyways on the Turn. On the flipside of it all is that even though that they all checked it, it can still give people a cheap look at the river. You see what you did was a "situational" move. You took the situation at hand and deduced that you could maximize your profits if someone bet it for you and you re-raise it. But that didn't happen and you lost some bets on the turn because in this good game you described you would have most likely had people call your turn bet anyways. But your little situational move didn't work. Ok no big deal. River is a non-threating card and you have to bet it here. Everyone else folds and you pick up a bet from the person that made the lower end of the straight. So the turn didn't bring the action you hoped for, but it is not a total disaster, you still pick up a bet on the river.

But after the turn I'm guessing you wished you had bet it? You took your risk based on your perspective of the game but it didn't particularly pan out the way you wanted it?


Ed S.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi baseball:

The reason to check the turn has more to do with not wanting to be raised by an early position player than looking to checkraise someone. Notice that if I'm raised, it can knock a possible caller out who now won't call two bets.

Best wishes,
Mason