Gamble or not? Live 1/2, deepstacks, good opponents

[meleader2]

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This hand came up during my five day stay at Turning Stone in July. Since that trip I haven't really played any poker at all since I decided to stop playing online. As such, I haven't been on 2+2.

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i'm in the same boat as you. i'll PM you on my thoughts...

[wtfsvi]

Yeah, that was really kindof stupid. I blame that it was 5 in the morning. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I've read the results, and while smooth-calling is certainly correct after EP folds, just that SB says he would've gotten away from kings doesn't mean he would get away from them. (If EP called and you pushed.)

[Rockatansky]

If that's how SB played the hand, the he isn't a "thinking TAG", he is a chip-spewing donkey. When he pushes, he's only getting looked up by worse hands.

[kurto]

It seems, pokerfink, like you know what you'd have to do. I got the answer out of your original post....

2 things:
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I know that if I smoothcall the raise, I'm telling them outload that I have queens or better.


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So, if you're certain that they can put you on a very narrow range of hands regardless of what you do (ie smoothcall or go all in), then they have more information then you do. You have to make them pay for that information. (ie... if you knew someone raised with aces and only aces, you could correctly call his raise everytime... right?)

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there is no way I'm going to know whether EP outflops me or not. EP is also more than capable of trying to bluff me out of the pot.


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I saw this in a WSOP... a player said, "I don't have a chance of outplaying you post flop" so he went all-in, immediately removing their ability to out-play him.

If you acknowledge that the other guy can play you post flop, don't give him the choice. Go in when you have the best hand.

final note:
the pot preflop was 75BB. That's a fantastic pot for not seeing a flop. I'd be comfortable taking 75BB everytime I was dealt aces.

[PokerFink]

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If that's how SB played the hand, the he isn't a "thinking TAG", he is a chip-spewing donkey. When he pushes, he's only getting looked up by worse hands.

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Of course, and he knew it. There is a reason he gave me a funny look, and a reason I mentioned that in the thread. He knew that if I called him I would have aces.

But put yourself in his shoes. He's first to act on the turn with somewhere around 150 left and a low, naked board. The pot is well over 200. There are really only two hands I can have: AA and QQ. One beats you, one doesn't. Are you getting away from your kings?

It's not like he can check, because if he checks I'm going to move in and he sure as hell doesn't want to get pushed off his hand by queens. Any bet he makes is going to completely pot stick him. So he has two moves.

1) Grit his teeth and move in.
2) Check and give it up.

I ask again. Are you giving up your kings? I doubt it.

EDIT: The only move he made in this hand that might have been a mistake was his flop bet. As it played out, he simply got stuck in a bad spot, and there wasn't really anything he could do about it except say "nice play" and rebuy.

[Rockatansky]

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If that's how SB played the hand, the he isn't a "thinking TAG", he is a chip-spewing donkey. When he pushes, he's only getting looked up by worse hands.

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Of course, and he knew it. There is a reason he gave me a funny look, and a reason I mentioned that in the thread. He knew that if I called him I would have aces.

But put yourself in his shoes. He's first to act on the turn with somewhere around 150 left and a low, naked board. The pot is well over 200. There are really only two hands I can have: AA and QQ. One beats you, one doesn't. Are you getting away from your kings?

It's not like he can check, because if he checks I'm going to move in and he sure as hell doesn't want to get pushed off his hand by queens. Any bet he makes is going to completely pot stick him. So he has two moves.

1) Grit his teeth and move in.
2) Check and give it up.

I ask again. Are you giving up your kings? I doubt it.

EDIT: The only move he made in this hand that might have been a mistake was his flop bet. As it played out, he simply got stuck in a bad spot, and there wasn't really anything he could do about it except say "nice play" and rebuy.

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1. Of course he could have checked. Checking would at least have the possibility of inducing an all-in bet from queens. As he played it, he's winning the least when he's ahead and losing the most when he's behind.

2. I find it hard to believe that he would play the hand as he did, but he would have folded Kings preflop.