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#21
10-20-2005, 06:54 AM
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Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
[ QUOTE ]
Don't listen to those other hating posters justin. I think you put some effort into your analysis and don't deserve to get ripped like that. And i love the guy that say how are you qualified? You never said you were. You were stating an opinion you were forming through television. Thats there favorite line. I agree with most of the stuff you said but too tired to go through all them now. Just thought you deserved to hear from someone who apreciated your effort. And ignore those guys. They just want to make people feel miserable because there not happy. Anyway keep up the good work! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Took the words out of my mouth. 
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#22
10-20-2005, 02:08 PM
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Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Sam Farha: He plays some questionable holdings, especially when he has alot of chips. He is easily bluffed out on the river even with considerably good hands, especially if the board becomes scary (i.e. Chris Moneymaker). His strengths are his hand reading ability and also being unreadable due to the high volume of hands he plays. [/ QUOTE ] You based this on ONE hand you saw on ESPN. Do you really expect people to take you seriously? What makes you think Erik Siedel is bored with the game? How do you know how long Phil Ivey steams for after a bad beat? Worst. Analysis. Ever. [/ QUOTE ] There is another hand in the 2003 WSOP Sam Farha plays against either Amir Vahedi or Scotty Nguyen. Again he is bluffed out on the river by a large bet when he holds a reasonable, yet marginal hand (2 pair I think). I didnt base that comment solely on one hand. Once again I dont claim to "know" anything about how these top professionals play. Obviously I have never been in a live game with any of them nor will probably ever be. These are just general impressions I get from watching these guys play on television. I agree that such impressions carry very little "weight" in reality. I merely wanted to see if anybody else watching these guys play on ESPN got the same sort of impressions I did. This way, I can verify that I probably live in the same realm of reality that others do. Sometimes I wonder.... lol -J
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#23
10-20-2005, 02:21 PM
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Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
For those who think my analysis was "the worst ever", I would like to point out that the one comment that really bothered me to write was that it seemed to me that TJ Cloutier was too willing to go broke on marginal hands. I saw him bust out of 2003 with AJ against an early position raise, 2005 with KQ on a ragged flop, tournament of champions with like A5, I believe, and on a WPT even was like 89hearts all-in preflop, and in an older WSOP event again he went all-in with KQ on a ragged flop. Yet I have molto respect for this man and his accomplishments and making such a comment bothered me because the few hands what I have seen on ESPN pails in comparison to the man's entire career. Neverless, this is indeed a tendancy I have noticed based on the hands I have seen broadcast on ESPN.
A few days after I made this post, I notice a thread entitled "Would you risk it all late in a major tournament with 88? TJ just did ". So apparently, I do live in the same reality that others do (at least one other person) and my comments are not totally without some basis from the hands ESPN chooses to broadcast. And I agree with the one post who said you cant really make conclusive judgements on the few hands you see on ESPN. These are just small fragments of these guys' entire game/career. They are, however, what we, joe-q-poker, get to see and what our impressions are based upon. -J p.s. It's funny that no one has dogged my Phil Hellmuth comment. LOL.
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#24
10-20-2005, 02:27 PM
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Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] And no one said you were qualified as an English professor, but if you were, you probably would've opted for "they're" when saying "That ' s there favorite line." [/ QUOTE ] If you are going to correct grammer, you really have to get it right. -Mike [/ QUOTE ] What is grammer?
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#25
10-20-2005, 02:34 PM
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Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
[ QUOTE ]
For those who think my analysis was "the worst ever", I would like to point out that the one comment that really bothered me to write was that it seemed to me that TJ Cloutier was too willing to go broke on marginal hands. I saw him bust out of 2003 with AJ against an early position raise, 2005 with KQ on a ragged flop, tournament of champions with like A5, I believe, and on a WPT even was like 89hearts all-in preflop, and in an older WSOP event again he went all-in with KQ on a ragged flop. [/ QUOTE ] You don't mention stack size or pot size for any of these hands. This is not a minor detail...it is impossible to even begin to evaluate any of them without this information.
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#26
10-20-2005, 02:41 PM
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Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Lol this was an entertaining post. Here's one to add about Ivey, he goes broke on AJ in every tournament he enters! [/ QUOTE ] if youre going to try to be funny and fail miserably, at least get the hand right.....its AQ [/ QUOTE ] If you're going to correct me and fail miserably, try not be an ass about it. In two WPT events he went broke on AJ, nice try though pal. Now go play your 1-2 NL game at stars and shut your trap. [/ QUOTE ] It's one thing to be wrong initially, but to be corrected and still insist you are right is crazy. The correct hand is AQ. In Foxwoods, he ran into Howard Lederer's KK, and at the WPT Championship, Kirill Gerasimov had AK. I think he also lost at a WPT final table this year with AQ vs. Josh Arieh's 33.
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#27
10-20-2005, 02:56 PM
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Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
I think you have no basis to make these assumptions. All you see is a limited selection of hands. What ESPN wants you to see and or brings in ratings. Until you play severl longs sessions with these players there is no point in generalizing their play. Also know that the top pros can change gears at anytime ...
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#28
10-20-2005, 02:59 PM
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Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have no basis to make these assumptions. All you see is a limited selection of hands. What ESPN wants you to see and or brings in ratings. Until you play severl longs sessions with these players there is no point in generalizing their play. Also know that the top pros can change gears at anytime ... [/quote I agree. -J
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#29
10-20-2005, 03:38 PM
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Re: Top pros and their strengths/weaknesses
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Lol this was an entertaining post. Here's one to add about Ivey, he goes broke on AJ in every tournament he enters! [/ QUOTE ] if youre going to try to be funny and fail miserably, at least get the hand right.....its AQ [/ QUOTE ] If you're going to correct me and fail miserably, try not be an ass about it. In two WPT events he went broke on AJ, nice try though pal. Now go play your 1-2 NL game at stars and shut your trap. [/ QUOTE ] It's one thing to be wrong initially, but to be corrected and still insist you are right is crazy. The correct hand is AQ. In Foxwoods, he ran into Howard Lederer's KK, and at the WPT Championship, Kirill Gerasimov had AK. I think he also lost at a WPT final table this year with AQ vs. Josh Arieh's 33. [/ QUOTE ] I'm thinking of the WPC when Ivey got dealt AJ, got crippled by Hollink's pocket queens, then like three hands later busts out with AJ. I know of at least one other tournament he either got crippled or eliminated with AJ. I'm trying to find it.
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