PP "juicing" vs. other sites

[BigBiceps]

I agree with your post about partypoker, and it is not on the other sites. I see the cycles too, I just don't see how to identify them.

The winning cycle always seems to come first. .... It has happened to me 4 times already, 3 times on party and one time on empire. Once, I was lucky enough to cash out +500 before I had a losing cycle. The other three times I basically cashed out break even, after being up a bunch each time.

Can you give a hint about identifying the cycles? I don't have pokertracker yet, but I am going to get it soon.

[MicroBob]

please contact me when you have the cycles 'identified'.

I will be very interested to sit at a table with you as well.

[BigBiceps]

Ok, no problem if I somehow identify something I will be happy to play at your table. Even if I don't, I will be happy to play with you on either FullTilt or UB, although I don't know what limits you play.

I won't fold QQ, KK, AA in a losing cycle, because I don't want to seem suspicious.

I know you think I am irrationally paranoid for thinking this way, but it doesn't bother me.

[JohnnyFX]

I'm guessing his "system" is pretty simple. Take a bad beat after winning a few? Guess we just got switched! Flop a straight and crack kings? Time to start raisin', ma!
I'm sure craig will explain that it's a little bit more complicated then that, but I doubt I'm far off.

[Lestat]

*I believe that the best players can make very good money on Party.

*I believe that I get more bad beats per 100 hands on Party than in any live game I've ever played in and it's not even close.

*I believe that there is a very legitimate reason for this... More opponents will play to the river any hand that has even the slightest chance of winning. This includes, gutshots, two-outers, and even single overcards. Of course, you'll get more bad beats from these guys than from reasonable opponents.

*I believe I am NOT making enough money from these players. So...

*I believe I am being robbed of pot equity. When there is $1000 in the center while I'm an 85% favorite I do not realize $850 on average. In other words, I am missing pot equity.

*I believe Party Poker has every reason in the world to tamper with odds on longshot draws.

*I believe this subject is like the "Emperor has no clothes" story. To admit you believe something's wrong, is to put your own reputation as a winning player on the line. Therefore, few winning players do it.

*I believe this is like debating the existence of God. There is just no way to prove anything one way or another with current knowledge. Everyone has to have their own beliefs. And like religion, some will be too embarrassed to say what they REALLY believe.

*I believe online is very profitable even given my other beliefs. This is the most important thing.

[MicroBob]

I believe this line of thinking is evidence that online-poker will remain VERY profitable for a loooooong time.

[dlk9s]

What continues to baffle me is why the people who think online poker is rigged or otherwise unfair continue to play.

It doesn't make sense.

[Lestat]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe this line of thinking is evidence that online-poker will remain VERY profitable for a loooooong time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you say that? If you play the 30 game on Party, I'm sure I'm getting YOUR money. So how does this make the game more profitable for you?

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

So my question is, is this reaction specific to Party Poker, or do players experience this on other sites? If other sites don't seem to have this reaction, or not nearly as much as at PP, then I'm going to consider switching where I bring my money to. I've done well at PP, having placed 1 and 2 in a couple of big tourneys, so I'm pretty stoked about being up a bunch, but do get pretty freaked out about this, even though I understand the data don't give credence to these subjective experiences.

So that's it, do players have similar experiences of being afraid that other sites besides Party, juices the game?

thanks for your thoughts.

zenpractice

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it is the same for every major site since the reaction has everything to do with perception and nothing to do with the actual distribution of cards.

I guess there are people that don't have selective memory and a true sense of a hands value but they are in a minority. I sure as hell don't expect to lose 15-20% of the time when I push with AA preflop, mentally I expect to win 95% of the time. And I remember when people suck out on me more than I remember the times I suck out on others. Now imagine someone who doesn't have a logical voice telling him that he should know better and that the game isn't rigged. He will definately come to the conclusion that the game is rigged because that is how the game often feels when you are playing it.

More people complain about Party being rigged because more people play Party. Further, once someone hears "PP is rigged" a few times, that person is more likely to attribute their own bad beats to PP being rigged than they would have on their own. So then even more people complain that PP is rigged.