QQ - the right amount of aggression? - Page 3

Shillx · #21 10-07-2005, 05:06 PM

Well I keep myself out of these tough spots and just check and call. If he shows me AA or KK, that is just the way it goes. Betting the flop is silly in this hand, but check/raising seems silly too against an unknown. If you get into a spewing war you will probably lose, but at the same time, can you fold to a flop 3-bet? If we know that he plays ABC poker then yes you can play it this way, but unknowns will play hands in various ways. Some will go into a shell with KK and others will keep raising with TT. Since I don't know what he will do and don't like making raise/fold plays against unknowns I just call down and learn something about it. Remember that giving free or cheap cards isn't as critical in this pot since we might not have the best hand to begin with. If we had AA we would obviously like to charge the 3rd player through the nose, but it isn't as critical here.

Brad

bozlax · #22 10-07-2005, 05:06 PM

Thanks, everybody, for the interesting discussion. Shillx brought up an entirely new way for me to look at preflop action. Very interesting.

So, I pulled a switcheroo on all of you. "Hero" in the HH was actually the Villan, and I was MP3 with KK. I played the hand the only way I thought I could; the bet/3-bet on the flop after my preflop cap made me put SB on AA/KK/QQ/JJ (KK or JJ would've been VERY surprising, for different reasons), so I figured I was WA/WB and called down.

milesdyson · #23 10-07-2005, 05:09 PM

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Betting the flop is silly in this hand, but check/raising seems silly too against an unknown. If you get into a spewing war you will probably lose, but at the same time, can you fold to a flop 3-bet?

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of course we can't fold to a flop 3-bet if we check raise, but we can check fold the turn unimproved if he 3-bets the flop.

tiltaholic · #24 10-07-2005, 05:15 PM

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Well I keep myself out of these tough spots and just check and call. If he shows me AA or KK, that is just the way it goes. Betting the flop is silly in this hand, but check/raising seems silly too against an unknown. If you get into a spewing war you will probably lose, but at the same time, can you fold to a flop 3-bet? If we know that he plays ABC poker then yes you can play it this way, but unknowns will play hands in various ways. Some will go into a shell with KK and others will keep raising with TT. Since I don't know what he will do and don't like making raise/fold plays against unknowns I just call down and learn something about it. Remember that giving free or cheap cards isn't as critical in this pot since we might not have the best hand to begin with. If we had AA we would obviously like to charge the 3rd player through the nose, but it isn't as critical here.

Brad

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this has a lot of appeal too. (check calling as opposed to check raising)

lautzutao · #25 10-07-2005, 05:18 PM

Ok, but given the way the action went on the flop, 3-betting might have been incorrect, but isn't not capping by the villian incorrect as well? What do we do on the turn here now? Just check it through and hope he doesn't bet? Fold to a turn bet?

This is what is confusing me so much I guess. I can't grasp why this flop wouldn't be capped. Villian just wants to see a cheap showdown from this point foward?

The way the action DID go I don't think we can expect villian to 3-bet us. Where do we go from there?

#26 10-07-2005, 05:23 PM

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Well I keep myself out of these tough spots and just check and call. If he shows me AA or KK, that is just the way it goes. Betting the flop is silly in this hand, but check/raising seems silly too against an unknown. If you get into a spewing war you will probably lose, but at the same time, can you fold to a flop 3-bet? If we know that he plays ABC poker then yes you can play it this way, but unknowns will play hands in various ways. Some will go into a shell with KK and others will keep raising with TT. Since I don't know what he will do and don't like making raise/fold plays against unknowns I just call down and learn something about it. Remember that giving free or cheap cards isn't as critical in this pot since we might not have the best hand to begin with. If we had AA we would obviously like to charge the 3rd player through the nose, but it isn't as critical here.

Brad

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this has a lot of appeal too. (check calling as opposed to check raising)

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This is how I play it as well Against an unknown I'm not happy about folding the turn if he 3-bets our flop c/r. An unknown might be overplaying AJ or AK, or K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or any number of hands. The pot has gotten pretty big just calling down costs 2.5BB vs 1.5BB is we c/r and get 3 bet, and now we don't have the opportunity to fold the best hand.

Shillx · #27 10-07-2005, 05:25 PM

I don't have time to elaborate right now, but the villian played his kings perfectly. If he gets into a war with them, he is going to look at either AA or JJ.

Hojglad · #28 10-07-2005, 05:29 PM

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haha, my 2nd orbit at a table and I'm dealt KK. I'm capping the flop and raising the turn if I'm bet into. I'll slow down to the 3-bet

*EDIT- Maybe this is Egoistic Fallacy, but with zilch known about the villian...this is how normal KK would be played here yes?

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EF aside, put yourself in MP3's seat. You capped preflop and then got bet into and 3-bet by an unknown OOP Villan...what do you put him on?

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JJ

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QQ

#29 10-07-2005, 05:37 PM

I play it the same and expect to win.

bozlax · #30 10-07-2005, 06:49 PM

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I don't have time to elaborate right now, but the villian played his kings perfectly. If he gets into a war with them, he is going to look at either AA or JJ.

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I'm going to frame this and put it on my wall. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]