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#21
08-03-2005, 01:45 PM
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Re: Darse\'s NL Tournament Primer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As the primer said.. Raise. Whenever you play a pot, and you have the opportunity to be the first raiser.. Be it! [/ QUOTE ] I'd just like to say that I think this is horrible advice. (yes, I realize Ferguson has said the above countless times. i still disagree w/ it) [/ QUOTE ] Why? I can see the logic of both positions. If you raise, then you may knock some of the limpers out - especially considering that they probably don't have particularly strong hands - so you have a chance to win the pot right there. In addition, after the flop, there is a better chance that they will check around to you - which gives you a chance to either raise and try to take the pot or to get a free card. If you call, your only real hope is to hit a favorable flop - otherwise, you are going to have to fold to anything. Personally, I like the raise. [/ QUOTE ] a) playing in raised pots out of position w/ deep stacks sucks b) allowing yourself to limp first in helps w/ your shania those would be the 2 biggest reasons 
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#22
08-03-2005, 01:52 PM
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Re: Darse\'s NL Tournament Primer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As the primer said.. Raise. Whenever you play a pot, and you have the opportunity to be the first raiser.. Be it! [/ QUOTE ] I'd just like to say that I think this is horrible advice. (yes, I realize Ferguson has said the above countless times. i still disagree w/ it) [/ QUOTE ] Why? I can see the logic of both positions. If you raise, then you may knock some of the limpers out - especially considering that they probably don't have particularly strong hands - so you have a chance to win the pot right there. In addition, after the flop, there is a better chance that they will check around to you - which gives you a chance to either raise and try to take the pot or to get a free card. If you call, your only real hope is to hit a favorable flop - otherwise, you are going to have to fold to anything. Personally, I like the raise. [/ QUOTE ] b) allowing yourself to limp first in helps w/ your shania [/ QUOTE ] You are going to have to explain what this means.
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#23
08-03-2005, 01:54 PM
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Re: Darse\'s NL Tournament Primer
Everybody has there own style.. But that is definently one successful way to play NL Tournaments.
Certaintly there are exceptions.. If you have alot of aggressive players behind you and you're UTG, you can limp in with A-A, knowing you'll get raised. In general though, I think it's pretty good advice, and Chris Ferguson is only one of the great tournament players of our time.
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#24
08-03-2005, 01:57 PM
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Re: Darse\'s NL Tournament Primer
i have to run in a minute. but here's a quick way to think of it.
you're in ep and you pick up AA. you want to get some $$ and the table is aggressive, so you limp first in trying to limp-reraise. the only problem is that YOU NEVER LIMP FIRST IN. you only raise! this allows everyone at the table to immediately put you on a huge hand (or at least be extremely cautious going forward). now, if you limp in w/ say 66 or JTs in similar situations, villian(s) can't immediately identify what your hand is. this allows you to make more money those times you have KK/AA and are looking for the limp/reraise because they will be forced to raise hands like TT or KQs from LP. if you only limp w/ AA/KK, they will just limp looking to bust you since your range is so narrow. it's incredibly easy to play against someone that has his hand face up on the table.
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#26
08-03-2005, 02:10 PM
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Re: Darse\'s NL Tournament Primer
[ QUOTE ]
i have to run in a minute. but here's a quick way to think of it. you're in ep and you pick up AA. you want to get some $$ and the table is aggressive, so you limp first in trying to limp-reraise. the only problem is that YOU NEVER LIMP FIRST IN. you only raise! this allows everyone at the table to immediately put you on a huge hand (or at least be extremely cautious going forward). now, if you limp in w/ say 66 or JTs in similar situations, villian(s) can't immediately identify what your hand is. this allows you to make more money those times you have KK/AA and are looking for the limp/reraise because they will be forced to raise hands like TT or KQs from LP. if you only limp w/ AA/KK, they will just limp looking to bust you since your range is so narrow. it's incredibly easy to play against someone that has his hand face up on the table. [/ QUOTE ] The problem is that Darse's approach is to only go in on good hands and to always raise a similar amount - that way, your opponents can put you on a good hand, but they can't tell WHAT hand it is - only that it is probably KT or higher or a pair or perhaps a suited connector - if you raise the same with 67s as you do with AKs as you do with AA, then they won't have any idea when you do have AA.
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#27
08-03-2005, 02:17 PM
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Re: Darse\'s NL Tournament Primer
Hey, what about me... [ QUOTE ]
I think sarcasm is completely lost on everyone who's posting in this thread. ...except me.... ...and betgo.... [/ QUOTE ]
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#28
08-03-2005, 03:34 PM
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Re: Darse\'s NL Tournament Primer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] i have to run in a minute. but here's a quick way to think of it. you're in ep and you pick up AA. you want to get some $$ and the table is aggressive, so you limp first in trying to limp-reraise. the only problem is that YOU NEVER LIMP FIRST IN. you only raise! this allows everyone at the table to immediately put you on a huge hand (or at least be extremely cautious going forward). now, if you limp in w/ say 66 or JTs in similar situations, villian(s) can't immediately identify what your hand is. this allows you to make more money those times you have KK/AA and are looking for the limp/reraise because they will be forced to raise hands like TT or KQs from LP. if you only limp w/ AA/KK, they will just limp looking to bust you since your range is so narrow. it's incredibly easy to play against someone that has his hand face up on the table. [/ QUOTE ] The problem is that Darse's approach is to only go in on good hands and to always raise a similar amount - that way, your opponents can put you on a good hand [/ QUOTE ] And thats why its a horrible approach
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#29
08-03-2005, 03:37 PM
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Re: Darse\'s NL Tournament Primer
Most online players aren't observant enough to recognize this, especially with how many few hands you'll show down.
I don't think it's a negative to be known as a player who plays "Big Cards." But indeed, you should open up your hands to smaller suited connectors and one-gappers.
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#30
08-03-2005, 03:42 PM
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Re: Darse\'s NL Tournament Primer
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i have to run in a minute. but here's a quick way to think of it. you're in ep and you pick up AA. you want to get some $$ and the table is aggressive, so you limp first in trying to limp-reraise. the only problem is that YOU NEVER LIMP FIRST IN. you only raise! this allows everyone at the table to immediately put you on a huge hand (or at least be extremely cautious going forward). now, if you limp in w/ say 66 or JTs in similar situations, villian(s) can't immediately identify what your hand is. this allows you to make more money those times you have KK/AA and are looking for the limp/reraise because they will be forced to raise hands like TT or KQs from LP. if you only limp w/ AA/KK, they will just limp looking to bust you since your range is so narrow. it's incredibly easy to play against someone that has his hand face up on the table. [/ QUOTE ] The problem is that Darse's approach is to only go in on good hands and to always raise a similar amount - that way, your opponents can put you on a good hand [/ QUOTE ] And thats why its a horrible approach [/ QUOTE ] You want your opponents to put you on a good hand pre-flop - you just want them to be wary of HOW good.
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