What global warming?

[wacki]

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What if oil is the best we'll ever find?

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I'm not nowhere near that pessimistic. I think there are there are many possibilities. Hell, who knows maybe one day humans will be diving cars that run on antimatter. Probably not, but you never know what we can come up with. If we procrastinate any longer, I will start to become very pessimistic though.

[Il_Mostro]

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I'm not nowhere near that pessimistic.

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Not me either, usually at least, I do tend to get more and more disilliusioned though. The worst part for me really is that the more I read the more apparent the problems become. And thinking about the fact that oil just might be (likely or unlikely, you choose)the best we'll ever find is a real eye-opener, at least to me.

And reading stuff like the article from al-jazeera I posted in another post does not make me feel any better. The article states that according to the numbers the oilindustry itself is giving now there will not be enough oil to fit demand during the next ten years.

[bholdr]

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They are also running out, day by day.

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they are running out, but only in an absolute sense: each year we gain access to more and more oil, coal, and gas that was previously too hard to tap- the world's petrol reserves actuall increse each year (!)


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Nope, keeping it from exploding is not the problem. The problem is that the whole idea is basically a sham.

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I know that the exploding isn't really the problem. i also should know sarcasam doesn't translate well into text. sry. But, the current problems with hydrogen (accessability, etc) are the very reasons that a large, national project would be so critical to it's development. as it stands, it is, well, not a sham, but a pipe dream.

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And you forget the most important problem of them all, the fact that our economic system relies on growth. If it stops growing it implodes. And having the economy grow while we have less and less energy available and transportation becomes more and more expensive (along with everything else) is probably not possible.

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Any economic system MUST rely on growth. a functional alternitive model just doesn't exist.

[wacki]

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They are also running out, day by day.

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they are running out, but only in an absolute sense: each year we gain access to more and more oil, coal, and gas that was previously too hard to tap- the world's petrol reserves actuall increse each year (!)

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Attitudes like this make me want to give up hope. Fossil fuels are not the answer to the future, I don't understand why so many people can't see that. Do you have any idea how long it takes to make oil? Plus you are totally ignoring the global warming issue with this comment.

[John Feeney]

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For instance, let's look at what www.globalwarming.org has to say:


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Don't you think we should first look at who www.globalwarming.com is? An initial search turns up this information, for instance:

"Cooler Heads Coalition and its website globalwarming.org (http://www.globalwarming.org/index.php) were revived by Consumer Alert's National Consumer Coalition in April 2004... Consumer Alert and National Consumer Coalition are industry friendly groups that oppose regulations on industry...”

The so called “Cooler Heads Coalition” is a right-wing front group for industry, formed “to dispel the myth of global warming.” (from their site)

You’d be hard pressed to find any reputable scientists or groups of scientists who think global warming is a “myth.”

[bholdr]

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Plus you are totally ignoring the global warming issue with this comment.

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I never said that fossil fuels were any kind of answer!

did you read my post where i advocated a national mannhattan progect for energy!?

Attitudes!?
being realistic is not an attitude. what i said about oil reserves is a fact. a scary one, yes, but a fact nontheless. Here's another one: the coal industry has recently developed chemical processes for extracting lighter hydrocarbons out of coal (such as gasoline), and there is enough coal in the world to burn until global warming is ancient history.

this is why we must act now! we are not just going to 'run out' of fossil fuels before our use of them destroys the planet.

where in my post did you get that i was advocating fossil fuels? i am confused.

[wacki]

My appologies. You have a very good point. I am doing multiple things right now (working in a lab) and I loose track of what everyone says. I was just commenting what at first glance looked like a "happy go lucky we will not run out" attitude.

I'm glad you see fossil fuels are not the answer.

[bholdr]

no prob. looking over some of your other posts i decided something like that had to be the case.

but i do beleive 'we will not run out'

that's what scares me.

[wacki]

If we don't run out, I will be scared too. But in a way we may get lucky. China will run out of water long before we do and people will start to starve and die. The US lucked out in this situation. Asia will have it very rough long before we the US will start to really feel the effects of global warming.

Then again these are only projections in an experiment that's never been done before. So who knows.

[Il_Mostro]

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they are running out, but only in an absolute sense: each year we gain access to more and more oil, coal, and gas that was previously too hard to tap- the world's petrol reserves actuall increse each year (!)

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That is an absolutely astonishing statement. I will have to see some references to back that one up, since:
1) Today we find about 1 barrel of oil for every 4 we consume.
2) Oil discovery peaked in the 1960:s
3) We have recently seen Shell and other oil companies slash their "proven reserves" by 20% or so

I will dig up some links tomorrow, if needed, I have to sleep soon [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

So, if you have any references to support your claim, please present them.

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But, the current problems with hydrogen (accessability, etc) are the very reasons that a large, national project would be so critical to it's development. as it stands, it is, well, not a sham, but a pipe dream.

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Nope, a sham is what it is. Read some of the links in my hydrogen post, someone caluclated that the UK needs to increase its electicity generation by 500% in order to use hydrogen instead of oil for transportation. 500% and you are not allowed to use fossil fuels, how do you do that? Simple answer, you don't. There are so many problems with hyrdrogen it's hard to know where to begin.

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Any economic system MUST rely on growth. a functional alternitive model just doesn't exist.

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Well, it worked ok for a few million years...
Trouble is, perpetual growth that relies on using more and more resources is simply not possible in the long run. Ever heard of exponential growth? It's a bitch. For example, if we are to keep the increase in oil usage at the same pace as today, in 1700 years we will use up one earth-mass of oil each year.