Flop A set of aces on a ragged board...

[chief444]

I don't really think it matters too much. But that's only because I don't know which line actually wins you more. Sometimes a flop call/turn raise kills your action more than a flop raise. But I'm not exactly too worried about protecting this hand. IF, notice that's a big if, a 2 or 3 are out there it's not like you're giving up much if any by letting them call for one bet on the flop. They have 4 outs and you still win like 1/4 of the time they do catch on the turn. I'd just call. But I don't really feel that strongly one way or the other.

[Sarge85]

I think a raise is still the best plan here.

I think just about anytime you have a raised pot - there just isn't enough justification to slow play. (Barring flop the immortal nuts - which a set isn't)

Your being bet into - so hell, maybe he has two pair, or a smaller set and you'll be able to jam.

Yes you could wait until the turn, and smoothcall here, but why let someone holding some funky backdoor draw come along.

I like raising.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[W. Deranged]

I certainly don't think that playing this slow is a bad line, and I don't particularly think that protecting your hand here against gutshots should be the sole consideration, but I do like raising for one reason:

Calling and waiting to raise the turn is very likely to kill your action! (as at least one person has mentioned)

By raising now and then (presumably) betting to turn, you force the intermediate players to have to call 1 big bet on each street, rather then half a big bet on the flop and 2 big bets on the turn. My suspicion is that, on average, you are actually going to get those players to put in more money by raising now then by waiting and popping the turn.

Another think to consider is that you might get three-bet on the flop. Imagine the possibilities... CO Bets, You raise, UTG calls, MP2 folds, CO 3-bets, you cap, UTG calls, ... could get huge on the flop.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a raise is still the best plan here.

I think just about anytime you have a raised pot - there just isn't enough justification to slow play. (Barring flop the immortal nuts - which a set isn't)

Your being bet into - so hell, maybe he has two pair, or a smaller set and you'll be able to jam.

Yes you could wait until the turn, and smoothcall here, but why let someone holding some funky backdoor draw come along.

I like raising.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree. and you're more likely to get a coldcall on the flop than if you wait for the turn to raise. and waiting for the turn to raise is gonna kill your action most of the time.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing in such as a way so as to win more money than pots is not FPS.

[/ QUOTE ]

FPS is applying advanced tactics that will get you money in tougher games but will cost you money in looser easier games.

Its extremely common in these Party 2-4 games that limpers will call two cold on the flop hoping to spike a set or pick up a flush or straighht draw, but will fold to a single bet on the turn when they airball. I'm sure you have seen countless times(if you've spent any time playing the low limits), limpers calling a cap on the flop but folding to the first bet on the turn. The fish have a need to see just one more card and you have to take advantage of that becuase when they airball you lost the chance to extract the money from them. When they pick up a draw, you get to ass rape them a second time.

The other plus to raising is you protect your hand against 25% of the 169 possible holdings that will have odds to draw out on you if you just call.

Stu

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Its extremely common in these Party 2-4 games that limpers will call two cold on the flop hoping to spike a set or pick up a flush or straighht draw, but will fold to a single bet on the turn when they airball. I'm sure you have seen countless times(if you've spent any time playing the low limits), limpers calling a cap on the flop but folding to the first bet on the turn. The fish have a need to see just one more card and you have to take advantage of that becuase when they airball you lost the chance to extract the money from them. When they pick up a draw, you get to ass rape them a second time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are way overestimating the likelihood that the average 2/4 player will coldcall an A,rag,rag flop with a PP or worse against a PF raiser.



[ QUOTE ]
The other plus to raising is you protect your hand against 25% of the 169 possible holdings that will have odds to draw out on you if you just call.

[/ QUOTE ]


The only reason to raise this flop is if you think you will win more money in comparison to calling. Mentioning anything about raising in order to protect the set of aces on this rainbow board is just foolish, since the vast majority of hands likely to be in play are drawing slim to dead against Hero's hand.

[brazilio]

You should make a caveat that he's not playing CDC before making statements like that.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
You are way overestimating the likelihood that the average 2/4 player will coldcall an A,rag,rag flop with a PP or worse against a PF raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Theres probably a 2-3 at every table.
Theres also a bunch that would bet an ace high flop and check the turn too. Getting a raise in on the turn or the river is far from gauranteed. The dynamics of these games are such that much of the money is made preflop and on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Mentioning anything about raising in order to protect the set of aces on this rainbow board is just foolish, since the vast majority of hands likely to be in play are drawing slim to dead against Hero's hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your veiwing the table through rose colored glasses if you discount an inside or open ended straight draw in the range of hands typical 2-4 players limp with.

Stu

[Pairadux]

This may be my second post on these forums...

But I always laugh at the stupidity of those who would raise on the flop in this situation.

Those who advocate raising appear to be scared of someone hitting a 20-1 card or something which could still lose if the board pairs.

Bottom line, if you raise on the flop with trip aces here then you can rest assured that you suck at poker. BAD

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]

This may be my second post on these forums...

But I always laugh at the stupidity of those who would raise on the flop in this situation.


[/ QUOTE ]

At first I thought it was Chesspain using a double account to make this post.

But then I read

[ QUOTE ]
Those who advocate raising appear to be scared of someone hitting a 20-1 card or something which could still lose if the board pairs.


[/ QUOTE ]

And I realized the author could not be Chesspain, because the author is an idiot(and Chesspain is a smart dude).

The odds of making a inside straight draw are 10.75:1
The odds of making a OESD are 4.88:1

Stu