Sleep

[carlo]

Look far into the future with this(not 1 or 2 months)--imagine you're able to run 3 miles but believe you will in the future be able to run 14 miles. The lessons learned in the present will build to the future.

Rhythm is strength--movement of sun, moon, and stars displays the great rhythms and you have to find yours.

Good Health,
carlo
\

[MLerra]

Look, either you care about changing this or you don't. But don't come here asking for advice, then wimping out with "well I don't know if I can make myself do that".

If it's easier for you to lead an unhealthy, sleep-deprived lifestyle while not exercising, that's what you'll do. If it's easier to exercise for 30 minutes every other day and get a good night's sleep, you'll do that.

Try 30-60 minutes of exercise - play a sport or run or swim or something. You'll be so damn tired that night, I promise you'll fall asleep quite fast.

And, for motivational purposes... playing sleep-deprived is equivalent to playing drunk. If you're a decent poker player now, you'll be an absolute menace at the tables when rested.

[Shakezula]

a short nap, one to two hours, immediately after work could be tried. then with the nap, you would still be able to stay awake later at nights like you want.

eat much smaller meals and healthy snacks more frequently if you have trouble consuming a large meal at one time. the act of eating won't be such a chore, you won't feel so heavy and loaded down, and you can still give your body the nourishment it needs.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
It has nothing to do with not wanting to listen to them. The physicians I've seen have given me responses that were dismissive. They never seem to understand the severity, or how it affects me. For the second time, I'm not looking for a clinical diagnosis or any medical recommendations. I'm looking for tried and true advice...as I've received. Does the age of the person giving the recommendation really matter? I'm only curious what has worked for other people.


[/ QUOTE ]

You imply that you have had a sleep disorder for at least ten years. You also say that physicians have been dismissive, which suggests one or more of the following: You have had difficulty explaining to them the severity of the problem, they have failed to listen to you, or you have ignored the advice you were given.

Regardless, even though you have a "sleep disorder," (sorry for the diagnosis), you say you want "tried and true" recommendations from anonymous poker players rather than "medical recommendations" from trained professionals. You know, when I need to have my car repaired, I usually don't bring it to my dry cleaner.

Indeed, I would recommend that you try to secure a referral to a psychologist who specializes in Behavioral Medicine, which is the use of behavioral/psychological strategies to help individuals overcome or cope with health problems such as eating disorders, sleep disorders, chronic pain, gastrointestinal distress, etc. Sleep disorders really aren't that difficult to treat--and I should know, since I'm a psychologist.

I wish you luck in your search for relief.

Dr. cp

[LuvDemNutz]

Well let me just say that I am exactly the same way. I have always had problems having a "normal" sleep schedule. As far back as I can remember I have stayed up way too late at night and suffered for it the next day.

I have problems getting up for work EVERY single morning. I am consistently 15 minutes late for work. It's gotten to the point where my supervisor knows it and has accepted it (thankfully, my work environment is flexible).

I guess the first thing that you should realize is that you are not alone in this respect. I would guess that 90% of adults that work 9-5 jobs drink coffee everyday. There's a reason for that - most people would drag their ass around like me and you if they didn't.

I do my best to stay away from caffeine but I have spans where I rely on it heavily.

I'm not sure how much advice I can give as I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. WHat I can tell you, is the best that I've felt is when I was going to bed at the same time every night. Try your best to get on a schedule. Also, 7 hours is not enough sleep for most people. Some people need as many as 9-10 hours a night. I know it doesn't seem possible with all there is to get done in a day.

Also:

1) avoid any caffeinated beverages after 2pm or so.
2) Quit smoking.
3) Try to exercise at least a couple of times a week.
4) Try to get up at the same times on the weekends as you do during the week (schedule).
5) Quit smoking.
6) Eat better.
7) Take a multivitamin.
8) Quit smoking.

Question - when you stay up late at night, what are you doing?

[Johnny Richter]

[ QUOTE ]
You know, when I need to have my car repaired, I usually don't bring it to my dry cleaner.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, this situation is summed up by this one statement.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

As usual, Dr. Chesspain is right on all accounts. Stick with doctors and mental health professionals, and don't ask for medical advice on a poker forum.

Having stumbled across a psychologist or two here, let me yap a bit. Screw the herbal crap, and follow good basic sleep hygeine. Cut out nicotine and caffeine (also, restrict alcohol). Exercise in the mornings, and follow a relatively well-set schedule for your sleep. Come up with a routine for bedtime and stick to it. Don't read, eat, work or play poker in bed. Bed is for sleeping and sex only. Avoid heavy meals before bedtime, but a light snack or glass of milk may help. Sleep in a dark, quiet room, or use a sound machine to block extraneous noise. If light music helps, then fine. TV is generally not a good idea. Over the counter sleep aids can be useful in the short run, as can sleep meds, but they should be used sparingly and infrequently. Over the counter sleep meds are generally just Benadryl, which works fairly well, but I'd just as soon most people skip the sleep meds. If you do need a medication, many docs are using trazodone. It's a mediocre antidepressant, that has the side effect of making you very sleepy and is not addictive (unlike most rx sleep meds, which are habit-forming).

There you go. Professional advice from two clinical psychologists. Now, go to bed.

[MicroBob]

i've had some kinda wacky sleep/fatigue issues for awhile as well. i feel your agony.


the exercise thing is the real deal. i feel SOOOOO much better when I'm exercising even semi-regularly as well as eating better (I've never smoked...but I can imagine this would be a good habit to break too).

I have a tough time motivating myself to run...but playing on a rec-league soccer team where I get to run around kicking people and chasing after a ball does the trick quite nicely.
Since I'm not into swimming or lifting-weights something like this may be worth considering.

Will also join a racket club at some point as I enjoy tennis and raquetball.

Find something (ANYTHING) that will get you even a little bit active.


i'm also a big believer in Vitamin C. 300% of your RDA.
There was some study I read about....
different groups received vitamin C via some generic orange-type drink. some were receiving no vitamin C...others got 60% of the RDA of vit-C...others 100%...others 200% or more...etc.

None of the participants knew how much Vit-C they were getting.

After a few weeks those were getting 200% or more would respond positively to such simple things that the study people would ask such as, "so...how have things been going for you lately?"

Those with less Vit-C were just typically not as positive...felt like they were dragging...etc etc.


Obviously other aspects of diet (iron, etc) are very important too.


sounds like there is a big-time motivational problem at play.
Instead of focusing on changing everything all at once for the rest of your life (quite the daunting task) just do one thing at a time for short-spells.

Commit to exercising and eating at least a little bit better for the next 2 weeks for example.

If you try to cut smoking, caffeine, and everything else all at once you would be more likely to crash-and-burn.

Other option would be to take a week's vacation and just stay at home for that stretch and quit the bad stuff cold-turkey and allow yourself to feel like crap for a bit.

I did this with caffeine for awhile. Had a few days off so just let myself lay on the couch and get the inevitable head-aches while I slept about 14 hours straight and got adjusted.

Variety of ideas in here I guess.
good luck with whatever direction you choose.

[CaptObvious]

As an additional note, sleep related accidents kill more people each year then alcohol and drug related ones. :-)

The Stanford Sleep Lab is remarkable, if you ever need a good sleep study.

[purnell]

Haha, at first I thought poeple were having fatal accidents in their sleep. You are refering to accidents caused by lack of sleep, right?

link?