O Doyle's Army - WE WANT YOU!

[RunDownHouse]

I'm in for a rakeback-type thing.

[Torr]

Great idea O'Doyle. I'd probably be up to this kind of challenge for a big tourney buy in depending on the details.

[KingOtter]

This idea is very interesting, but I wonder if it is really implementable.

1. Tourney seats / entries would ALWAYS be a limited number of seats. This means that only a minority of the 'army' would be awarded them. And the ones that win them may not be the best ones to put into a tournament (would they qualify by talent? No, by sheer volume of hands). So even if the winnings were distributed, there's no guarantee of winnings. Or even the winnings being maximized.

2. Any other kind of deal sounds amazingly similar to a rake-back deal. Or it would have to be compared very closely to existing rake-back deals to see if it is actually better. Plus rake-back deals are already available to anyone who wants. What's the current attitude of the poker-sites to rake-back deals?

So... what are you REALLY bringing to the table that isn't already out there? You mention a bit of collective bargaining, but the main thing you seem to want to bargain for is an individual award (plus you don't like the U word).

It seems like you want to take an individual deal that you made with a poker-site, and turn it into an enterprise for more people, which is admirable. But what about it is different, really?

Say I'm a poker site, I approach you... "Hey, I hear you can boost my play by 100k hands a month. I'd like to make a deal with you... what do you want?"

What are you going to answer that will help all the soldiers?

KO

[O Doyle Rules]

[ QUOTE ]
Say I'm a poker site, I approach you... "Hey, I hear you can boost my play by 100k hands a month. I'd like to make a deal with you... what do you want?"

What are you going to answer that will help all the soldiers?

KO

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Otter,

Great question and I appreciate it.

There is no answer that is going to benefit all "soldiers" equally. Ultimately, each "soldier" will have to decide that what the site is finally willing to offer is worth bringing their play to that site. One shoe will not fit all in this particular case. Some will be overjoyed with what is finally negotiated, some will really like it, some will be okay with it, and some might think its a bad deal.

However, the "soldiers" are in a "no lose" position. They don't have to take the deal. It is still their individual choice. Hopefully, the deal that is offered will be so attractive that the vast majority of the soldiers will accept it. I have already laid out a tentative plan of what I am going to ask of the site in exchange for the play of the "army" in this thread.

By the sheer number that has expressed interest in the tentative plan that is laid out in this thread, it looks to me that it has excellent support. Naturally, the site is going to have "veto" power of anything that is suggested here. They can chose to offer our group something or not. Once they offer it, the soldiers then have the option to accept it or not.

I haven't asked anyone to jump out of the foxhole to take a bullet for me. (Not yet, anyway.) [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[terrapin314]

[ QUOTE ]
Since next year's WSOP is still 11 months away, why not go all out? Instead of just going a seat at the main event, why not go all out and try to get an entry into several events.

This would be good for both the site and the player as ESPN would for sure do a piece on the group (remeber all the talk about "the crew").

So, the site would get it's name on ESPN several times. This is also good for the players. Not only do they get some serious tourny entry fees, they too get the publicity. That may not seem like a lot, but, it used correctly, it can translate into serious profits without a tourny win (book deal, TV poker show host deal, made for TV tourny entries/invites, spokesman gigs for the site, etc, etc, etc).

[/ QUOTE ]

This might the best idea. X amount of hands for a smaller WSOP tourney and X for the main event.

If the timeframe is long enough, then I am in. You could sell it to the pokersites as 100,000 hands in 10 months. Has a nice ring to it, eh?

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Say I'm a poker site, I approach you... "Hey, I hear you can boost my play by 100k hands a month. I'd like to make a deal with you... what do you want?"

What are you going to answer that will help all the soldiers?

KO

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Otter,

Great question and I appreciate it.

There is no answer that is going to benefit all "soldiers" equally. Ultimately, each "soldier" will have to decide that what the site is finally willing to offer is worth bringing their play to that site. One shoe will not fit all in this particular case. Some will be overjoyed with what is finally negotiated, some will really like it, some will be okay with it, and some might think its a bad deal.

However, the "soldiers" are in a "no lose" position. They don't have to take the deal. It is still their individual choice. Hopefully, the deal that is offered will be so attractive that the vast majority of the soldiers will accept it. I have already laid out a tentative plan of what I am going to ask of the site in exchange for the play of the "army" in this thread.

By the sheer number that has expressed interest in the tentative plan that is laid out in this thread, it looks to me that it has excellent support. Naturally, the site is going to have "veto" power of anything that is suggested here. They can chose to offer our group something or not. Once they offer it, the soldiers then have the option to accept it or not.

I haven't asked anyone to jump out of the foxhole to take a bullet for me. (Not yet, anyway.) [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

If they offer, say 3 seats to a WSOP.

What is the motivation for more than 5 people to play? Who gets the seats?

And after 4 deals, when the same college kids with all the time on their hands play the most games and score the most hands?

What's the LONG TERM motivation to stay involved for someone who can play 10-15k hands a month, can never place in a 'most hands played' contest? This is who I see as a soldier. Otherwise it's just a 5-10 man team slamming out hands.

KO

[O Doyle Rules]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Say I'm a poker site, I approach you... "Hey, I hear you can boost my play by 100k hands a month. I'd like to make a deal with you... what do you want?"

What are you going to answer that will help all the soldiers?

KO

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Otter,

Great question and I appreciate it.

There is no answer that is going to benefit all "soldiers" equally. Ultimately, each "soldier" will have to decide that what the site is finally willing to offer is worth bringing their play to that site. One shoe will not fit all in this particular case. Some will be overjoyed with what is finally negotiated, some will really like it, some will be okay with it, and some might think its a bad deal.

However, the "soldiers" are in a "no lose" position. They don't have to take the deal. It is still their individual choice. Hopefully, the deal that is offered will be so attractive that the vast majority of the soldiers will accept it. I have already laid out a tentative plan of what I am going to ask of the site in exchange for the play of the "army" in this thread.

By the sheer number that has expressed interest in the tentative plan that is laid out in this thread, it looks to me that it has excellent support. Naturally, the site is going to have "veto" power of anything that is suggested here. They can chose to offer our group something or not. Once they offer it, the soldiers then have the option to accept it or not.

I haven't asked anyone to jump out of the foxhole to take a bullet for me. (Not yet, anyway.) [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

If they offer, say 3 seats to a WSOP.

What is the motivation for more than 5 people to play? Who gets the seats?

And after 4 deals, when the same college kids with all the time on their hands play the most games and score the most hands?

What's the LONG TERM motivation to stay involved for someone who can play 10-15k hands a month, can never place in a 'most hands played' contest? This is who I see as a soldier. Otherwise it's just a 5-10 man team slamming out hands.

KO

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Otter,

I think you are totally confused on what I have proposed. You need to go back and read my original post.

For example, if there are 100 players that agree to play 120K hands of $3/$6 in 4 months on a site for a WSOP package, as long as they all hit the hand requirement in the allotted time, they all would win a seat.

This is not a contest, it would be I play x amount of hands in x amount of time and I get the WSOP seat. If I don't hit the amount of hands during the time period, I get nothing. But I am guaranteed the WSOP seat as long I meet the hand requirement in the required time. You alone control the outcome, you are not in competition with any other player for the seat.

[PuertoKid]

I would certainly be interested. I may not prefer the same "kickback" that others would, but the objective is to get something from the sites (proof of concept). Once we establish that sites will make this kind of deal, we can talk about changing the details of the arrangement.

[O Doyle Rules]

[ QUOTE ]
I would certainly be interested. I may not prefer the same "kickback" that others would, but the objective is to get something from the sites (proof of concept). Once we establish that sites will make this kind of deal, we can talk about changing the details of the arrangement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Kid!

You are exactly right. The model I laid out is just that a model.

What is paramount right now is to still generate as much as possible in this general idea:

I am a high volume player. I am a part of this larger group of high volume players that want something of value for our play. Poker sites, what are you willing to provide us in value in exchange for our play?

I still think the model I laid out is an excellent one for the sites due to the ability of them to build a team presence at major poker events.

However, that doesn't mean that the poker site won't offer other members of our "army" another option that they feel is of value for their play.

[Altaslim]

This is in response to your thread about what a high volume player might want. I think it's best to keep it simple and offer two options. Offer players cash in the form of bonus, rakeback or whatever...or a seat to a major tourney. For me the seat is more important, as it's harder for me to justify spending 10k to get the experience of sitting with the pros. BTW, thanks a lot for putting effort into this. Hope something happens!