Derek Jeter- Clutch?

[Pocket Trips]

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The Cubs didn't win one in 2004.

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the stupidity in this post defies explanation. Bulldog... what is the most recentl completed baseball season? Unless my math is fuzzy it is 2004 therefore 2004-1908 = 96 years since the cubs have won a world series.. ugh i can't stand stupidity

[jakethebake]

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The Cubs didn't win one in 2004.

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the stupidity in this post defies explanation. Bulldog... what is the most recentl completed baseball season? Unless my math is fuzzy it is 2004 therefore 2004-1908 = 96 years since the cubs have won a world series.. ugh i can't stand stupidity

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He didn't say since. He said "between" wins. They may never win another one.

[Voltron87]

Well you can pretty much write off this one. 97.

[CallMeIshmael]

Hey all, sorry to bump this thread... but I recently got into an argument about whether or not clutch exists... and since I think it does, I would like to hear (especially jack of arcades) counter arguments to my thoughts...


My feelings on this subject are basically: clutch hitters do exist, but it is impossible to identify them given the information we have.


I define 'clutch' as the differential ability of somone to perform in pressure situations.

Now... a question to those who say clutch doesnt exist: do you believe that if two players are, say a 7.00 out of 10 in regular situations, it is possible for them to be 6.67 and 6.23 out of 10 in pressure at bats in the playoffs?

Basically, this is what I think of when I think clutch hitter:

1. Two hitters (A and B) who have stats such that you are indifferent between the two in a given non pressure situation.

2. You have a preference between the two in a pressure situation?

People handle stressful situations differently, and I would contend this is also true in baseball, though I cant back this up with evidence. (for a somewhat lame example... davis love III has stated he doesnt like playing with tiger woods... as the added pressure affects his game)

Now... I believe a study was conducted that showed that hitters arent capable of consistently having a higher average w/RISP than their true average. This doesnt necessarily, IMHO, prove that clutch doesnt exist.

There are factors that havent been accounted for in this analysis (an example of one is better pitching.. though Im not about to say that is to blame..)

But... as long as some players decrease at a far less severe rate under pressure, isnt that clutch?


Now... I want to state for the record that there is a very large difference between believing that clutch exists and that a player can be identified.

Derek Jeter is not necessarily clutch... he might be, he might not be... there is absolutely no way to determine whether or not someone is clutch, because the sample size is too small by about a factor of a million

So, in PRACTICE I guess I believe with those who say clutch doesnt exist, but in theory I believe it does


People handle stress differently. A situation that sends someone to therapy doesnt have that severe of an impact on someone else. I just dont see how MLBers all have the exact same ability to handle stress.

[Jack of Arcades]

Clutch may or may not exist given someone's definition of it. I also think it probably exists in small amounts in the major league levels, but it's not a huge deal... since there are so many factors (variance, pitcher types, etc).

Put it this way: ignoring any "clutch ability" is probably less of a mistake than trying to draw conclusions based on small sample sizes.

[CallMeIshmael]

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Put it this way: ignoring any "clutch ability" is probably less of a mistake than trying to draw conclusions based on small sample sizes.

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I agree with you 100%.

I feel very strongly that clutch exists, but that doesnt mean I believe it is overly significant or measurable.