Lets talk about tells.......

[MushashiAce]

thanx

[theKGBwins]

"The most valuable tell I've seen is if a player bets, then stares at the flop, without much bodily movement, trying not to influence/trigger your call. Lack of eye contact is another key."

While the first part is sometimes true, the eye contact statement can go both ways. Some players look away on purpose so they dont seem like they are a threat, cause they WANT your call. But then again, someone who cant look you in the eyes may be bluffing. So, its a toss up.

[lane]

the best tell I've ever seen was when i was playing in a small 'just for fun' ten dollar buy in tournament. The player across from me would mouth what his cards were to himself. I could see his mouth move 8 6. It was the best thing I'd ever seen in my life.

[pokerstudAA]

I have seen some people stacking/clacking their chips before too. One particular tell I noticed was one fellow who would bang his chips before the action got to him so that no one would bet. Once the action got to him he would either bet(bluff) or check. The clacking clearly indicated he wanted the people ahead of him to be scared to bet out.

I have also noticed the "lean back" when a player gets a solid hand and either bets out or raises and then leans back. Usually an indication of a strong hand.

There are definately some people who keep repeating the exact same tells. With the weaker players I definately think these are usually an indication of the exact same situation.

Also....if betting patterns are more important than tells what are the types of patterns and what is the easiest/quickest way to identify these patterns. I know of the loose/passive, tight/aggressive, loose/passive? etc.


Thanks for all the great info

[MushashiAce]

Taht's a really good question! and i don't have an answer! Sorry, i'd love to hear a response to that though.

[warlockjd]

In NL tournaments, against solid players that are most likely Caro-familiar, I like to cover my mouth or a part of my face after being stared down a while (to advertise that I am bluffing). This has worked a few times, as as soon as I make the motion, get a call.

[cero_z]

Hi elwood and Soss,
I will never understand people who downplay the importance of tells at the higher limits. I guess we're going to rehash the "debate" between Mason and Caro ad infinitum, but I will say that when I travel to Vegas casinos, Tunica casinos, Atlantic City casinos, etc., I am playing 20/40 thru 40/80 limit hold'em vs. strangers, or PL/NL games where the avg. stack is around 1000 bucks. In short, most of these players are far from "beginner" status, and there are many useful tells present. These tells may allow me to win a pot or save a bet 99% accurately, when knowledge of betting patterns might lead me to the correct choice about 0-66% of the time. In the private games in which I regularly play, many players are terrible, but a few are very skilled (BB/hr winners in public 20/40s), and I have reliable tells on all of them which win me substantial money with regularity. Obviously, I assume they also have valuable tells on me. So when you play with some players regularly, the value of tells is magnified greatly. I agree that understanding betting patterns is more important (in limit poker), but that in no way means that tells are of little importance.
I suspect that the reason for the debate is that most players, even very good ones, are not very good at reading tells. If you aren't an expert in this area, it can be a lot more like guessing.

[cero_z]

Hi Manimal,
[ QUOTE ]
It all depends on your read of the player, not the tell, though - you have to know what's an act, and what's a genuine tell.

[/ QUOTE ]
When I talk about "reading tells," deciding whether a player is acting is included. Watch the WPT, and you'll see that players as sophisticated as Jen Harman and Daniel Negreanu (sp?) occasionally try to sucker people with what is sometimes extremely hammy acting. Players like Phil Gordon, Paul Phillips, Alan Goehring and Michael Kinney have provided textbook examples of unconscious tells in their WPT appearances. You figure out if your opponent is acting. If he is, you figure out what your opponent wants you to do, and you disappoint him. How is that not precious as gold?

[BarronVangorToth]

The even more amusing thing with tells are the guys that try to make you notice tells by making them obvious. Like huge sighs when they have the nuts that are just outrageously obvious and then they do the same noise like a hand later trying to make you think it's the same thing...

or are they trying to make you think that's what they're doing and that's not what they're doing?

Most of the time -- it's just ludicrous.


Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com
"Beware the Too Obvious Tell"

[Sully]

Do you think that Caro's tells are as reliable as they used to be? Thanks to the Internet, there are many players who have played tens of thousands of hands without ever stepping foot into a card room. I fit the description pretty well...although I have played a few times in Vegas and in the Colorado excuses for poker rooms, I have no real B&M experience, but a pretty substantial amount of poker experience.

Would this affect my actions at the table in the eyes of others, or will the tells still be "true"? I have to imagine that a lot of the reliable tells are changed because of this. When I'm at a B&M poker table, I fumble my chips, bet out of turn, look distracted, get confused, etc. Most of this is a result of the fact that I'm not used to the "physical aspect" of poker. It's not any kind of an act....although I tend to get pretty comfortable after a little while, at first I look like an idiot regardless of the hand.

What are the implications of an experienced / advanced player in the body of a complete rookie? I've certainly noticed that it seems to help people think of me as an idiot, which can't hurt.