I gotta call this river, right?

[stoxtrader]

Well, I certainly think I could improve my play in both blind spots and think they are a HUGELY important part of the game, so if you don't mind, I'd like to post my stats for analysis and to promote discussion...

From the SB:

over 2200 hands
VPIP 42%
win% 13.99
won$WSF: 31.5%
BB/hand = -.12
WtSD 28.65%
W$SD - 56.18%
PFR - 8.75%
Raise first in: 3.6%

I'm sure there are leaks here.. help me plug them!

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise first in: 3.6%

[/ QUOTE ]

i think that may be an issue. 2200 sb hands (i hope its not 2200 total). how many were first in? 3.6% of what?

if its a decent number like 500 then you are clearly not raising enough. if you just call and see the flop then you're giving up a lot and if you call and then call a raise you lose control and should have raised with the hand that called the bb's raise.

-Barron

[1800GAMBLER]

I complete nearly every single time (50% VP$IP) and mines -0.1 over 3k hands there. Sample size is way way too small though. Raise first in is 13% PFR% is 16% my largest of any position, since i'll raise one MP open limper with lots of crap.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
getting 15-1 there is no way I can lay this down, right? It's not even close?

I should be completing this small blind, too, right?

How bout my 3 bet on the turn?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="666666">7 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks,

Flop: (3 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero bets, BB calls, Button calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero bets, BB calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (13 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB bets, hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I literally laughed out loud when I saw what the BB had...85o.

9 kicker plays!

hooray.

He way overplayed his hand, cripes.

[stoxtrader]

When HU with the BB, I certainly raise much more than call. I think 3.6% is the number of times I've raised first in out of all times I've had that spot, not out of all times I've been first in. My overall Raise first in percent is 5.43% and my PFR% is 9.95%.

There are certainly situations where I will simply call in the SB when HU. These would include a super aggro BB when I have a good hand, or a super tight BB when I have a good hand. I will certainly raise with almost any two if the BB is tight. And otherwise my default play with a hand I'm willing to see a flop with, but would rather win the blinds is to raise. I think my HU play is decent, and in any event occurs much less often than decided when to complete/defend vs earlier limps/raises.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>,

Final Pot: 1.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 1 BB, won by Hero.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 0.50 BB, returned to Hero.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
No showdown. Hero wins 1.50 BB. </font>

my notes on BB: showed he folded his BB HU 100% of the time out of 227 hands we've logged together (I just double checked # of times the event occured and it was 4).

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
I complete nearly every single time (50% VP$IP) and mines -0.1 over 3k hands there. Sample size is way way too small though. Raise first in is 13% PFR% is 16% my largest of any position, since i'll raise one MP open limper with lots of crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

looks like your win rate is certainly better (-.12 vs -.1)

How is VPIP of 50% completeing every time? I wonder how many times in SB we see an unraised pot and if that 50% is all hands, not hands without a raise, I think it's all hands, in which case you pay the 5 bucks pretty darn near everytime I would say. In any event, mine is 42%, and I complete with anything reasonable and lots not so much because of implied odds...so not way far off, but certainly decidedly different.

Where we differ it seems is your super aggression in the SB. SB seems to be your most aggressive position, while it is my least. which is better? or more appropriately, what are the pros/cons of each as I imagine certain hands/situations/players would require a certain play style to maximize EV....what are the relevant issues here?

BTW - it is 2200 hands in the SB I am talking about.

thanks for the replies.

[1800GAMBLER]

Yea. I pay the $5 in nearly every single situation. Only have a 50% VP$IP is because the games are so feckin' aggressive.

My UTG PFR is about 6% (shockinly, equal to my BB raise %) but i limpreraise lots. Button is a 11% SB is 16% crazy. I raise Ax Kx 78s and other pretty looking hands against an MP open limper since they drop so fast on the flop and the BB gets out a decent percentage of the time. I win 35% of my hands from here when i see a flop and 20% of my hands from that position BB is 20% and button is 7%, i guess i'm hyper aggro short handed.

Ya. I have 3k hands on each these positions.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
Live, I think that this is an easy fold. Online, just cuz players are more likely to do the "instantaneo-tilt-click-raise" maneuver, I may call the river.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is a very interesting point. I agree with you that our hero is beat the vast majority of the time. However, the pot is giving him tremendous odds on the river. How sure are you that a live BB wouldn't play it exactly the same way with a hand that's worse than the hero's? You have to be really sure. Can you be that sure when the BB is unknown?

[bobgreen]

Josh,
The turn cap is at least a straight 80% or 90% or 95% but there are many players who could have something less, and 5% or 10% or maybe?? 20% of the time you'll see a worse hand.

My numbers are absurdly specific; I might as well have said 70.000%. I should have said:
FH, straight, 3-fives better kicker--80%-90%,
pair+oesd, 3-fives worse kicker, inexplicable other--10%-20%.

While it's not significant in this hand, your comment that 54 and 58 are less likely, since the opponent would likely raise the flop, woke me up to a gap in my handreading logic. It does come up when I have a weak A and have to figure my chance of having the best kicker. If this pays off, and we cross paths, I'll treat you to anything you want on the comp menu.

Thanks,

Bob

[elindauer]

Hi bicycle,

I think the estimates of your odds of winning are way too high. Pair + oesd? No way. Trips worse kicker? Unlikely. That call-cap move just wreaks of a player holding a monster trying to keep the button in, and then unable to keep it in his pants the second time around.

Honestly, I cannot imagine folding this myself. If somebody told me they did though, I would have to say I'd be hard-pressed to prove them wrong. I just call with the inner conviction that calling, if wrong, can't be too wrong, and these hands don't come up very often, and hey, I can sleep knowing that I didn't fold the winner.

Good luck, but you're toast.
-eric