Is this CR a good idea?

[Chris Dow]

This is a case where you charged yourself and got lucky. You can't raise the flop because your draw is weak and as mentioned you won't get a free card if you check the turn. In fact if you look back at the hand you lost a lot of value. If you just call the flop and hit your gutshot on the turn then you can check it after the sb checks, the same bettor will bet, the sb might raise with his slowplayed two pair and you put in the third bet with your made straight.

[Joe826]

Check/calling is the worst option of all. If hero bets out instead of waiting for his opponent to bet he may pick up the pot right there unimproved. By check/calling, you see the turn for the same price but you give your opponent the advantage in the hand by making him the aggressor. As others have pointed out, the checkraise doesn't make sense for the reasons given. It might be a viable option if you plan to follow it up with a turn bet and you think there's a reasonable chance your opponent will fold, but then you have to ask yourself if risking the extra bet is worth the added forcefulness that the C/R brings over just betting out on the flop. The only other reasonable option is to check/fold the flop.

[chief444]

First off, I would not fold on the flop. Hero has a gutshot straight + overcard + backdoor flush draw and is getting about 7.5:1 when it comes back to him on the flop. But I'm not crazy about the check/raise either.

The only time I may check/raise this is the bet comes from late position and I'm next to act and can make it two bets to the rest of the field. And even that may not be a good play with a relatively weak hand and only one overcard. I see your idea of playing for the free card from early position and it can be done against very passive, weak/tight opponents who will fear another check/raise. But it's not a play that I make often and the few times I have it was either heads-up or 3-way and I knew my opponents well enough that I was about 90% sure that if I missed on the turn it would be checked through.

[Joe Tall]

You should be check calling this flop as long as noone will check-raise it behind you. Your check-raise is going to cost you dearly in the long run.

You've got 8:1 w/1 player to act behind, w/gutshot, overcard and backdoor flush. The call would be thin but it is correct.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[flexus]

I know generally it is better to bet out than to check/call. In this situation, though, I would not bet out for two reasons:

1) The opponents are almost never going to let me win it right there. Remember we are playing micro limit here.

2)The risk of being raised. I would really not like to pay two bets to see the turn.

By check calling in this situation instead of betting out, not only may it be checked around, but also by passively calling the flop bet you have a good chance of being able to check raise the turn if you make your hand.

So, instead of risking to have to pay two bets to see the turn by attempting a semi bluff (which will hardly ever work), I think it is better to see the turn for one bet or possibly for free, and possibly check raise the turn if you make the hand.

[flexus]

[ QUOTE ]


The only time I may check/raise this is the bet comes from late position and I'm next to act and can make it two bets to the rest of the field.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you want to thin the field when all you have is a weak draw? I would like to have as many oponents as possible with me on this one. This is because I wan't to get paid when I make the hand.

[Joe Tall]

Check/calling is the worst option of all. If hero bets out instead of waiting for his opponent to bet he may pick up the pot right there unimproved

With 4 opponents and a board like that, you are very unlikely to take it down on this flop in a micro limit game by betting out.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Joe826]

Good points guys.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
why would you want to thin the field when all you have is a weak draw? I would like to have as many oponents as possible with me on this one. This is because I wan't to get paid when I make the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because, in this hand for example, half of your draw is with your overcard Q. A late position bet could be anything but is often just a draw so if I think I may be able to get heads-up with someone who may just be on a draw by raising when I'm going to call anyway I will often make this play. For one extra SB it normally gives you a much better chance of winning the pot. I'd rather win a medium sized pot than lose a large pot because I didn't play aggressively. Besides that, if you don't drive the others out you still have outs and it only costs you 1 SB extra.

[SparkyDog]

[ QUOTE ]

Basically, a lot of people raise draws and a lot of people are wary of giving free cards. Being that this is the case a CR on the flop followed by a check on the turn when a blank hits will usually be treated as weakness by players who are semi-aware. Expect to be bet into again by a pair or better if you check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see a whole lot of check-raising period with typical micro players, and when I do, it's not with strong draws, but strong made hands. I can't recall anytime I've seen a micro player raise a draw for value. Do you really think the average micro-player would be paying enough attention to put Hero on a draw, and bet out in order to not give a free card?

Not that I'm defending the flop CR, I think it's the wrong line to take, but I'm not sure about your reasoning to not CR the flop.