Pat Tillman loses his life

[Josh W]

Boris -

He went over there for one simple reason. HE WANTED TO. He didn't enlist in the Army years ago because he had little direction. He didn't enlist hoping to get to see the world.

Many soldiers enlist because they want to serve their country. And, when they enlist, they don't know if they'll ever see conflict. Some hope they do, some hope they don't.

He enlisted KNOWING he'd see conflict. And he also knew that he had the ultimate life of luxury if he chose to not enlist.

How many soldiers go into the service in any given year, giving up millions of dollars, even more value in a family, and limitless possibily stateside to serve their country overseas? Please answer this question with a healthy estimate.

Every life lost is tragic. Uber tragic. I'm not trivializing that. In fact, I think that all may be equally tragic.

Some are just a little more selfless. Selflessness is a GREAT role-model-trait. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

Josh

[Oski]

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Someone who gave up the "American dream" to fight so others like us can pursue their dreams.

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He was not fighting so that we could pursue our dreams.

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I certainly do not agree with you. Freedom and the pursuit thereof, is not really an "us" and "them" concept. One who fights for freedom is fighting for all. The ideal is not finite, measurable, nor confined to a particular space.

One can argue the "fight" is misplaced and not doing much good, but then you would be making a political statement (as TSC asked you not do) which really is not what this is about. It is about one man making a choice to live up to his convictions and risk his life.

[Boris]

I apologize. I was mistaken in thinking that he was fighting in Iraq. I see know that he was in Afghanistan trying to hunt down Al-Qaeda remnants. A very worthwhile cause indeed. I thank him for that.

[Boris]

I am not sure that selflessness is a great role-model trait. I do agree that it was a great thing for Tillman to give up his NFL career to try and hunt down terrorists.

[HDPM]

[ QUOTE ]
Boris -

He went over there for one simple reason. HE WANTED TO. He didn't enlist in the Army years ago because he had little direction. He didn't enlist hoping to get to see the world....





Some are just a little more selfless. Selflessness is a GREAT role-model-trait. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

Josh

[/ QUOTE ]

I think these ideas are contradictory. I am not sure at all that selflessness is a good thing. Actually, I am fairly certain that it isn't. True, enlightened selfishness can be very good, and be mistaken for selflessness. Anyway, I don't want to criticize Tillman. I don't know his situation or all the things he took into account in making his decision. And I agree that his death is not something to politicize. I will just say that all of us should think of all the implications of the decision he made. He had responsibilities to his family and he chose to give up money and go do a riskier thing (ironic) than pro football. HYPOTHETICALLY, what if he went for very selfish reasons and hurt his family? HYPOTHETICALLY, what if his reasons were irrational? I cannot say it was a selfless decision, yet I am in no position to criticize it either. I hope all goes as well as possible for his family. He certainly stood up for what he believed in and paid a heavy price for it. Of such stuff heros and role models are often made.

[PuppetMaster]

which makes his death very sad. He might be the bravest and most courageous solider in the history of the United States.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
He had responsibilities to his family and he chose to give up money and go do a riskier thing (ironic) than pro football. HYPOTHETICALLY, what if he went for very selfish reasons and hurt his family? HYPOTHETICALLY, what if his reasons were irrational?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't want to speculate as to why he choose to enlist and fight, because I am not him and I certainly don't know what he was thinking. However after reading the article on MSN.com about his short life, I can't help but think he did this for the right reasons.
Lets look at the facts here. He had the potential to earn millions in the relative safe world of professional football. He was recently married and young. Instead he declined the offer to make millions and choose to enlist. What possible reasons could he have done this? Like I said he was recently married, he was just starting his family, and was young and rich.
According to the article(I am going to assume all the other ones out there are saying something similar), he decided to enlist(along with his brother) after 9/11, he wanted to served his country. He must have made this decision with his new wife and family, one would think. The article also said he did not want the press to cover him during his training or while he was in combat. he didn't want any special treatment because he was a professional athlete.
IMO, this was a guy who wanted to serve his country in the war on terrorism, and he died in that service. My heart swells with pride when I think about the sacrifice he made, along with the other soldiers who have lost their life in Afghanistan and Iraq. He is a role model to me, and if you don't think he is one, maybe you need to re-evaluate yours.

[ThaSaltCracka]

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I was mistaken in thinking that he was fighting in Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]
What if he was???
I am sorry, but the soldiers of the U.S. military don't get to choose whether they are fighting a war they believe in or not. The fighting our troops are doing in Iraq is just as courageous as those in Afghanistan. Their deaths are just as sad.

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I see know that he was in Afghanistan trying to hunt down Al-Qaeda remnants. A very worthwhile cause indeed. I thank him for that.

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Whether or not you like the war in Iraq, you should thank those troops as well for their bravery and patriotism. It sickens me to think that one of my cousins and friend in Iraq is thought of in the way you responded in your first post. Saying things like: [ QUOTE ]
What makes his death so much different from any other American that has died in this misguided war?

[/ QUOTE ] is practically like spitting on their graves.

[andyfox]

How does being very wealthy make his death any sadder than if he was not very wealthy?

[andyfox]

Mr. Tillman certainly did do what he believed in. This, to me, is not what is admirable about what he did. I don't care about somebody doing what they believe in, I care about what they believe in. Stalin and Mao, to name two extreme examples, did what they believed in. But what they believed in was horrific.

Nor is the fact that he, in particular, died significant to me. Over a hundred Americans and I don't know how many Iraqis have died in Iraq this month; I don't know what the figures are for Afghanistan. I don't think his life is more valuable than anyone else's.

Yet I do find something admirable about him. He was certainly courageous. He felt he was lucky to have been able to live in the country he lived in and he wanted to try to do what he could to prevent more 9/11s, to, as he put it, give something back. Not being much of an NFL fan, I frankly had never heard of him before today. While I do find it disappointing that we consider famous people more worthy than those who are not famous, this young man seemed to have character beyond what most of us possess.

Hopefully, this will focus attention on the fact that Afghanistan has almost been forgotten, despite the fact that it is deteriorating and we still have our military in harm's way there.

How lucky we are to be pontificating at our desks. He could have had that luxury too but chose otherwise, an almost infinitely more difficult path.