Lets talk more about poker for a living

[Al Schoonmaker]

The softest games in AC and LV are early mornings, especially on weekends. In fact, mediocre, weak-tight players can beat them. Just play tightly while the drunks and people desperate to get even throw away their money.
Regards,
Al

[MicroBob]

some interesting takes on the whole 'scene'. i agree with some of the sentiment of what has been said but i am going to play a little devil's advocate here as i am one of those looking to poker as more than 'just a hobby that pays well'.

i understand the need to keep everyone's heads on straight because there seem to be a lot of 19-year-olds who think they can jump on this and have an easy route to easy money.

that said, i am working towards pro status as best i can.

the importance of job stability and insurance and 401k type stuff can conceiveably be overstated i think.
don't get me wrong....that stuff can obviously be very important.....but there are other factors that need to be considered as well.

- general job satisfaction/contentment
- income
- flexibility

i come home from work and can put in a couple of hours of poker at my leisure (even if it's 3am) while watching a Clint Eastwood movie on cable.
yes, you obviously need to put in the hours....but you can do so at your convenience. that's the beauty of the internet-poker boom.
i can pretty much go wherever i want (visit family for a few days and play there...etc).

there are a lot of people who are really miserable in their current job situations and i feel terribly for them.
i almost feel guilty that i can leave my 'regular' job as a BJ dealer on the early-out list every night because i am making as much playing poker.
i enjoy my job....but i am working every single weekend night (have to get ready for work right now actually) and on super-bowl sunday, new year's eve, etc etc.

i want to ditch this as quickly as responsibly possible (bankroll dependant) so that i never have to work on super-bowl sunday again unless i want to....and so that i don't have to ask any moron employers if it's okay for me to leave my home base (aka - go on vacation) for a few days.

if i try to give pro a shot and i go through a terrible run and it doesn't work out....then back to the regular job i go. but i am trying to get my bankroll to the point where that will not be a likely situation.

to that end, i am not doing anything drastic until i have 60k-70k hands in p-tracker showing i am a consistently winning player (this will be on top of the thousands of hands i have played prior to getting p-tracker where i have been profitable).



i have been fired in an old-fashioned house-cleaning from a more regular 'office' job before. it's not for me.
i'm not a morning person and i don't enjoy working for morons in a 9-5 job that is actually more like 7-7.

my previous occupation (before the office job) for 10 years paid very little, had no health-plan (seasonal work) but i LOVED what i did even if it was a little tricky surviving sometimes.
i will be looking to go back into that on a seasonal basis but that will mean that poker will account for a solid majority of my income. i am thankful to have poker around to allow me the flexibility to at least pursue my dreams and goals in this field.



i think some of you that frown on those of us trying to turn pro don't seem to realize that some of us out there are making less than 30k a year and/or work in less-than-ideal situations (to put it mildly).

it wasn't in this thread at all....so i hesitate to bring it forward....but there have been a few posts previously on this topic that have made some condescending type of remarks on how any college-educated individucal should be able to make 50k or 100k a year etc etc.
some have even mentioned how easy it is to get a job as a computer programmer or something like that.
well, i know nothing about computer programming and the thought of learning about something that bores me THAT much just to make an income makes me want to throw-up.
i've never made more than 30k in a year and i feel no shame in saying so.
i believe i can realistically expect to make significantly more than that this year based on the combo of poker and my regular job.
if i get to the point where i can ditch the regular job than that will be because my hourly earn-rate at poker dictates that it is reasonably responsible to do so (i.e. more profitable).

if i had a family it would seem riskier...but the payoff would be enormous....more time with kids and at home. how many wish they didn't have to spend so much time at the office while their kids were growing up??

i'm building my bankroll and i'm getting there. last night on UB was a very nice boost (+240BB on 3 tables in 1:30....that's a new record for me).

there are a couple of other thoughts i have on this topic....but i think i have babbled on faaaaarrrrrr too long....besides, i'm late for work now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


i encourage everyone to caution the inexperienced that going pro can be tough and may not be in their best interests.....
but there are definately some of us out there who are convinced it is a better life than our current situation. and we are the only ones who can truly evaluate our own situations.

i enjoy my life and for the most part, enjoy my job. i just think i can do better and i am not willing to sell myself short.

[Noo Yawk]

I've been playing for a living for a little over a year now due to the loss of a job. I'm fortunate that I'm a decent enough player to pay my bills and had a small nest egg put away to get me through the tougher times. There is no way anyone should do this for money or because they just think
it would be a cool way to make a living. If you are a winning player, don't expect much more than to pay your bills.
The best part is the freedom. My girlfriend and I wake up early every morning and workout for 2 hours a day. She goes to work, and I play cards. I get to live a life of total freedom with the girl I love. The money may be a lot worse than we were used to, but the quality and enjoyment of our lives has gone up 10 fold. She suports me 100% and the last year has been the best of my life. Money is far from everything.

[Warren Whitmore]

There is a spectrum between freedom and security no doubt. Being a libitarian I obviously lean heavily towards the freedom side of the spectrum. Benjamin Franklin once said " any man who would give up even a little bit of freedom for a little bit of security will recieve niether of either which is exactly what he deserves." I see it on the national leval with homeland security in my mind that translates directly to homeland freedom lost. Working for someone else is too high of a price to pay.

Poker is not a buisness or investment it is self employment and that is all it is. Like any form of self employment it has limited upside potential. It cannot be transfered easily to others and therefor cannot be transformed later to become a buisness or investment. In other words it is a dead end street.

There is however an upside. Poker does do one thing very well which is transferable. That is poker teaches better than anything else I know how to evaluate risk vs reward types of situations. Thats an important skill to hold. It has taught me to view the events that occur in the world as cause and effect as opposed to being random events. That has allowed me to beat the S&P by 1% per month for the last 3 years. That sort of stuff is important. That sort of stuff is not upside limited and can build into real money.

Poker was good to me as a hobby for many years.
Poker was good to me as a part time job for several years.
Poker is good to me now as full time self employment.

I have no complaints.

[CrisBrown]

Hi All,

While we're still on the subject, let me add that I would never tell an aspiring novelist not to finish a book, and I would never tell an aspiring poker player not to work at the game. I would just want both to be prepared, and have realistic expectations. And I suspect most of us who are writing cautionary posts feel the same way.

Losing half of your bankroll is one thing; you can always win it back. Losing your hopes and dreams can be far more damaging. That's why it's important to have reasonable and well-informed expectations.

Cris

[jayadd]

my 2 cents....

I just had an interesting situation that hit home when it comes to pro. poker. I left my job(not to become a pro. player) for a relocation. two weeks after putting in my leave of abscene i was playing in a staff softball game and tore my ACL in my knee. Well needless to say i was compensated by my employer for the surgery (which went successful) and they also kept paying me for 6 months while i went through Physical therapy. In this time i really thought about my job and poker. I was making 36k a year in my job plus about an extra 6-8k in overtime. I also did pretty well last year in tourneys in B&M which i had to claim (12K). My live action was also profitable at mid limit stakes. My online game was iffy only about 1k profit for the year. But the most important thing that i learned during these past six months was my job was a good distraction from my poker. Yeh there was days late sunday night in AC i wanted only to stay and call in sick but it got me to make sure i didnt do anything stupid. Now i didnt enjoy my job if anything i had one of the most stressfull jobs on this planet(special education teacher)
What ever you feel is right for you is the most important key in life. Im 28years old and i enjoy playing sports like softball and basketball so health insurance and summers off are vitale to me but i can take my poker game and turn it into a profitable hobby and combine it all to work anyone can.

Remember JOB- just over broke thats why i dont call poker a job......

[TylerD]

[ QUOTE ]
poker steak

[/ QUOTE ]

That comes with a lot of chips right?

(chips = fries in UK)

[IlliniRyRy]

I agree with Al. I have a couple friends just out of college that are doing quite well with poker as their sole source of income, but I think it's psychological torture for them, just as it was for me in the few months that I tried it out full-time. Although it may be absolutely clear that you can beat the game you're playing over the long haul, it's impossible to avoid serious downswings and if you have nothing to back yourself up when the hard times hit, you could really be screwed if you have any regular expenses. I'm 24, I have no expenses, and I have a decent job, and it's still excruciating when I can't make any money. I rely more on poker for income than anything else, but I put a lot of value in security. Plus, I mean let's face it, this isn't your typical job, how will it look when you're out there trying to qualify for a mortgage or car loan when you tell them you're a professional poker player? I still think there is plenty of time in a 24 hour day to go to work and play poker.

[Al Schoonmaker]

Being a full time poker player does not just hurt you when you apply for a mortgage. It also greatly reduces your chances when you apply for any responsible job. There was a thread here a month or more ago about mentioning poker during job interviews. The consensus of opinion was that it should not be mentioned. Most employers look negatively at poker, even in our TV era.
But, if you have done nothing else for a few years, you have to mention something. If you say, "I've been a full time poker player," most employers are not going to think, "This person is disciplined and knows how to manage risk." They are going to say, "Thanks for coming in. We'll keep your resume on file."
Regards,
Al

[Mike Gallo]

The softest games in AC and LV are early mornings, especially on weekends. In fact, mediocre, weak-tight players can beat them. Just play tightly while the drunks and people desperate to get even throw away their money.

I concur. Its why I have played the "graveyard" shift some Friday nights [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]