I, uh, fold?!? Yeah, I fold!

[Franchise (TTT)]

0-2 outs? Not on average.

You might not be drawing to 6 outs, but I'd assume most of the time the average is probably over 5.

You'd play any pocket pair in that position based on implied odds, wouldn't you? What you give up in terms of strength of hand (flopping a set vs flopping TPTK), I think you make up for for the extra times you'll flop a hand.

Your position does suck, but you can still use the 3-better (or the cold-caller) to knock out some people if you flop what you want.

[SoBeDude]

You might not be drawing to 6 outs, but I'd assume most of the time the average is probably over 5.

well since 6 is the MAX you can draw to in this situation, I'm quite sure on average its not 'over 5'.

You'd play any pocket pair in that position based on implied odds, wouldn't you? What you give up in terms of strength of hand (flopping a set vs flopping TPTK), I think you make up for for the extra times you'll flop a hand.

pocket pair? yes. because if you have 66, the chance of someone else playing a 6 is remote. Also, if a 6 flops, a SET has a strong chance to hold up. And its an easy hand to get away from if you miss.

Can't you see how this is entirely different and a much more favorable situation than holding AK in this spot?

BTW, if the AK was sooted, I'd make the call.

-Scott

[Franchise (TTT)]

How come nobody else has anything to say on this?

Besides, you want other people to be drawing to your A's and K's. If you both hit, they're way behind.

[andyfox]

Tight-aggressives don't 3-bet lightly from early position no matter who the UTG raiser is.

[DiamondDave]

'cuz that guy cold-calls an EP raise with JJ/TT/AKo/AQs and re-raises with QQ/KK/AA. I don't know what he does with AKs in that spot, but I know enough to be confident that he's either tied (+flush draw freeroll) or ahead.

[DiamondDave]

...is a really good one.

I am drawing to TP/TK. At least one (and maybe all three) of my opponents are drawing to a set. If I catch a pair on the flop and one of them makes trips, I stand to lose a ton of chips.

Thanks for the feedback, andyfox. I love your posts!

[DiamondDave]

The flop is JJ2. UTG and UTG+1 go crazy. UTG+2 mucks, looking quite disgusted. The turn is a J. UTG bets, UTG+1 calls. The river is a trey. UTG bets, UTG+1 calls.

UTG had QsJs for quads. UTG+1 had QQ. UTG+2 didn't flash his cards and didn't say what he had.

Thanks to all of you for the responses. To those of you who advocated playing my hand, I assure you that I would have gone in against certain opponents. Just not with UTG+1 and UTG+2 being who they are and doing what they did.

[DanZ]

This is an easy fold for 3 cold. So was the KJs early with a good UTG limper in a high stakes game.

But here it's only 2 cold. That's a big difference. Very often you will be drawing to 4 outs for half the pot (aka 2 outs), and sometimes it will be 0-2 outs, but when it's not the case, folding is very bad getting 5.25-1. Your implied odds stink, however, because you won't get a lot of action unless you are beat or tied. You will get some action, like flop round bets and crying calls from KK or a lesser ace, just not a lot of action like a set could generate.

Your position is not that important since you should be ditching the hand on the flop for one bet if you miss and don't have a gutshot or some other draw, like a backdoor nut flush.

Dan Z.

[cjx]

I've gotta play this hand UTG could have a huge range of hands many of which you dominate and UTG+1 may have AA-88 or AKs-AQo which he would also believe he has UTG+1 dominated with, UTG+2 could certainly hold a AKs-ATs additionally some pairs NOT AA, KK, probably not QQ because of his reaction. So, if I had all the time in the world and all the reads you had I'd put loosey on ~KJs/o, isolator on QQ-88 (I like TT personally), annoyed ~AQs he decides to play hoping for a flush to bail him out because he doesn't feel he can outplay UTG+1.

In your position I'd call. If the flop hits me, bet out and see what the field does. Typically assuming only one raises I think I'd like to play back against Loose, fold to tighty solid, and check call unknown. If nothing hits, checking and folding is ok barring a draw (although now I'm not looking so much for the AK as the straight or flush).

cjx

[Diplomat]

I made similar fold on Saturday night. After a while, it almost feels routine. No pair, thin draw, bad position, easy fold.

-Diplomat