HPFAP - Playing AQ early

[tvdad]

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I'm not talking about AQo vs. AQs... just giving you a hypothetical.

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Then I'm confused. What were you referring to when you said:

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"Your "3% advantage" now translates into winning 20% more pots. It turns a roughly break-even hand into a big winner."

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I thought you were talking about my original question regarding AQo vs. AQs. So is AQo better or worse than break-even in this situation? It must be pretty close if AQs is such a playable hand.

T

[pudley4]

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So the main reason being suited here is so much better is that 10% chance that you'll flop the flush draw, and the 35% chance from there that you'll make it?

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No. Say the flop comes down 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. If the PFR bets into you, you likely have to fold when you hold A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], especially if there are lots of players behind you. However, if you have A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], you definitely call. Now, when the A comes on the river, you beat his KK.

Or when the flop is J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], you can stick around and catch K T on the turn and river to win

[tvdad]

Okay, I understand about the added incentive to stay in if you flop the flush draw. However, catching an A on the turn or river, especially with several people in the hand, may not be so good. I see people stay in all the time with AX if they match their kicker on the flop. Heck, lots of people will make a big bet if their kicker is the top card on the board. Then if an A comes later, they've got 2 pair and I've just lost money I shouldn't have with my AQ. In this particular situation, should I be making large bets or raises (semi bluff) to push these guys out, even if there are several people in the hand? Remember, I'm chasing too.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm arguing with you guys. I really do appreciate the tips.

T

[Mackas]

Whether or not your agree with it Pudley4 just gave an example of exactly what Mason was saying in his original reply in this thread. I had never thought of it that way before but it makes sense. There may be an extra risk involved as you then said tvdad, but no more than if you flopped your A or Q. But the essence of it is that there is extra equity in the hand over and above the flush draw namely that an extra 10% of the time (when you catch you'll your flush draw) you'll stay at which stage you may well have 15 outs rather than 9, and there is therefore more than a 35% hand that your hand will hit.

So your added value is more than just the chance of making the flush but also the chance that the correct play will be to see all 5 cards rather than just the flop which increases your chances of winning the pot with a pair.

The debate over the danger of still getting beat is a different one and does not detract substantially from your added equity in this situation. In particuar your example of an A small suited catching its kicker as well as the A is not really relevant to this debate as it applies to any situation where you play AQ, and you're not going to start mucking it constantly in fear of an A small catching two pair.

Anyway that's the way I read what Mason was saying. If I'm wrong its my fault / misinterpretation.

[blackaces13]

AQ suited or unsuited is a profitable hand. He was just illustrating a point.

[bunky9590]

Mason,
I turbo muck the Aqo to a raise in EP even in loose games but usually will cold call if the gae is loose because I will most likely get the price I need to see the flop, (i.e. 4-5 players) If I miss, I'm gone but the pots when you hit can be HUGE!.

I haven't read that chapter in a while, but that is the jist of what the section is about or am I WAY of base?

[tvdad]

I just had to share this hand after all the talk about plaing AQ...

Planet .10/.25 NL HE. Table has been pretty loose, and it takes a large preflop raise to knock anyone out. I'm UTG with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] so I raise to $1.25. UTG+1 calls, everyone else folds. Flop comes T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I bet $5 and he calls. Turn is [T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet $12 to put him all-in, and he calls. River is [T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. He flips over A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Ouch.

T

[bigpooch]

Here's a good example I remember years ago involving two
acquaintances. Player A raises almost utg and Player B
calls in middle position; everyone else mucked (10-20 LHE).
By the way, the game was fairly tight and A has solid hands
when he raises up front.

Flop came down AKQ and the action was capped. Turn card was
an ace and again the action was capped! River was a blank
and it only went to 3 bets. Player A had AK and Player B
had AQo! Maybe B could have saved a few bets, but once he
sees the flop, he is booked for the trip with no return
ticket! This is a hand where B could have simply mucked
before the flop and a lot of professionals would most likely
do the same (the ones that play middle limit or higher).

I have seen a similar hand where the first raiser in early
position had AK and was cold called by an AQo and there was
big trouble on the turn: both made three aces! Although
admittedly these examples will rarely occur, sometimes it's
just simply trouble against a tight raiser. When both the
AQo and a dominating hand hit the board, the AQo will lose
a bunch of bets!