A3 Suited on Botton...Opinions needed

[The Bear]

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Muck the A3 before the flop.

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This is bad advice. With two limpers, play A3s on the button. No doubt.


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Do I like an ace when it flops? If an EP player bets? Sounds like an easy way to be second best. 2 limpers isn't enough to warrant calling in hopes of a flush draw flop, either. Another reason to fold: if it's a loose passive game where button bets aren't going to buy the pot.

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If you have any confidence in your post-flop play, you need to play this hand. Very often a flopped ace will leave you with the best hand. Will you sometimes be second best? Of course, but poker is a game of percentages, and this hand (in this situation) is too strong to fold. Just don't consistently go to war on AJx flops and things will be just fine.

As for button bets not buying the pot, that's just fine by me. I love loose, passive opponents with this type of hand. I can value bet them all the way down when I flop a made hand or raise for a free card when I flop a draw. This is all the more reason to play the hand.

Easy call.

[DarkKnight]

PREFLOP:
I don't care much for the call. You're not going to have
enough callers to make the flush draw worthwhile and with
an early caller you could easily be behind a bigger ace.

FLOP:
Definately Raise or Fold. I prefer fold here with a smallish pot and a dangerous flop. Many party low limit players will call 2 bets here with AJ for example.

DK

[CPA]

After reading some of the responses, I am embarassed about the Flop play. This is horrible !! It is no wonder I have been running bad lately.

I think this play would only be appropriate for top pair, bad kicker.....not low pair, with overcard.

Thanks for the replies.

[Joe Tall]

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I don't care much for the call. You're not going to have
enough callers to make the flush draw worthwhile and with
an early caller you could easily be behind a bigger ace.


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In passive preflop games, I would limp in much earlier positions than the button w/Axs.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[ropey]

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I can value bet them all the way down when I flop a made hand or raise for a free card when I flop a draw.

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and how often do you think this will happen?

-ropey

[Clarkmeister]

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I don't care much for the call. You're not going to have
enough callers to make the flush draw worthwhile and with
an early caller you could easily be behind a bigger ace.


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In passive preflop games, I would limp in much earlier positions than the button w/Axs.

Peace,
Joe Tall

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Yeah, like UTG maybe?

[Joe Tall]

In really passive games, from the rail is correct too. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Peace,
JT

[ropey]

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I think this play would only be appropriate for top pair, bad kicker.....not low pair, with overcard.


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So you would rather raise someone who has a pair of aces with your 3 kicker? You are raising a better hand, with very little chance of winning the pot.

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I am embarassed about the Flop play. This is horrible !!

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I believe you should be embarassed with your preflop play...I may be in the minority, but I don't see how this hand can be played profitably without a multitude of callers. Your saying you would raise when you hit your ace, but the fact of the matter is you will be raising a better hand an extremely large percentage of the time, with a very low percentage of chance to win.

On the contrary, raising a pair of Queens with your pair of 3's Ace kicker is not a horrible play in my opinion, given that you are farely certain you will take a free card on the turn. If you improve this hand, you will have the best hand a very large percentage of the time.

With two cards coming, you will improve to Aces up or 3 of a kind about 20% or 1 in 5 times. Given that you can get a free card, you are investing 1 big bet, to get back 4.5-6.5 big bets (2.5 preflop, 1 flop, 1 or 2 on turn and river, possibly 3 if you get a raise in when you hit your ace. This is close to even money...maybe not necessarily a good play, but certainly not a bad play.

If this pot is any bigger preflop, or one more caller on the flop, this becomes a good play. But you need to have good control over your opponents to get the free card.

-ropey

[Jezebel]

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In passive preflop games, I would limp in much earlier positions than the button w/Axs.


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Joe, I agree. However, I'm sure when you limp in early position you are expecting/praying for several passive limpers behind you. When you are on the button and do not get the required number of callers, then I'm sure you muck because you have all the information you need, and do not need to predict the action like you do in early position.

On a side note, I'm not saying that the preflop limp is bad. It all depends on the opponents. For me to limp with Axs on the button with only 2 limpers, my opponents would need to be very loose post flop, so that when i hit my hand they will pay me off. You are going to have to collect in the neighborhood of 2.5 bb, just to break even on the preflop call, assuming the blinds do not raise.

[CPA]

Ropey,

Well said. My earlier reply was not well thought out. The situation you are describing is exactly what I meant. Your example with a Q is perfect....with a ton of "if's": If you have an overcard, if the pot is large, if you can get the others to fold, etc.