Strangely played set - Page 2

ElSapo · #11 10-29-2003, 11:44 AM

I understand not betting the flop, though I think it's stronger to bet and hope to be raised.

Having said that, I understand check-calling the turn, for obvious reasons.

I don't understand not capping the river.

Guido · #12 10-29-2003, 01:00 PM

Hi Homer,

I would play the same way like: Ulysses, Lil' and Joe Tall.
Flop: bet/3-bet
Turn: check/call
River: bet/cap

Thanks,

Guido

biggambler · #13 10-29-2003, 01:14 PM

You shouldn't check on this flop. Why let suckers look for a straight for free?

Homer · #14 10-29-2003, 01:34 PM

hi Homer stay at $15/$30 at Party Poker

hi Jackass I've never played $15/$30 at Party Poker.

-- Homer

Homer · #15 10-29-2003, 01:42 PM

Okay, so I think I made two mistakes in this hand, one huge and one not so clearcut.

Not so clearcut - On the flop, I should have bet out, hoping to be raised so that I could three-bet. I was attempting to checkraise the button to shut out the draws. I'm sure there are times when doing this is correct, why isn't this one of them? Everyone says that I should bet out and three-bet, but I'm not satisfied since I'm not sure why. Does increasing my probability of taking down the pot not have as high an EV as does pumping the pot? How large would the pot have to be on the flop before you would consider check-raising?

Clearcut - On the river, I should have capped. I bet out, hoping to be raised by a straight so that I could three-bet. MP2's three-bet threw me for a loop. I sat there for ten seconds or so trying to figure out his hand. I couldn't think of any possible hand he could have had that beat me (based on his flop/turn play). Despite this I called because I suck. See, this is why I'm not playing 5/10 or higher. No balls.

-- Homer

lil' · #16 10-29-2003, 01:56 PM

Despite this I called because I suck
Why must you always say this?

You should be more confiedent in your skills. You're a winning (and thinking) player.

Homer · #17 10-29-2003, 02:13 PM

Why must you always say this?

I lack self-esteem (and enjoy self-depricating humor). It's definitely a problem that affects my poker play. Specifically, it clouds my judgement and makes me play weak-tight. If I could consistently play as well as I post, I'd be very happy and very rich (well, not very rich, but I would have a few more dollars lining my pockets).

-- Homer

lil' · #18 10-29-2003, 02:27 PM

I don't think any of us play as well as we post. Well, I know I don't!

It is interesting that you sometimes post hands with mistakes that you know you made and know how to correct. How come? I always figure if I know what I did wrong there's no point in asking other people about it. Maybe I should just post a bunch of hands and see if people think they are as boring as I think they would be. Maybe there's something I could learn from it.

Ulysses · #19 10-29-2003, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was attempting to checkraise the button to shut out the draws. I'm sure there are times when doing this is correct, why isn't this one of them? Everyone says that I should bet out and three-bet, but I'm not satisfied since I'm not sure why. Does increasing my probability of taking down the pot not have as high an EV as does pumping the pot? How large would the pot have to be on the flop before you would consider check-raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

This pot is plenty big to checkraise for that reason, but it's not nearly as important for you to take this pot down early because your hand is so strong and the board is not all that scary (boards like ThJhQh are the really scary ones). Another issue is whether or not anyone will fold. The problem is that you're looking at a 568r flop. Nobody w/ a 7 is going anywhere. Nobody w/ anything like 69 or even 45 is going anywhere. Something like A4 folds for two bets. But, in most cases with a board like this, most people who will call one will call two (remember, the pot is pretty big already). If you raise and 3-bet, you'll accomplish two things. Those that would have stayed anyway will get charged 3 bets. And some of those that called but would have folded to the checkraise will believe you now and fold, accomplishing much the same result as the checkraise.

[ QUOTE ]
See, this is why I'm not playing 5/10 or higher. No balls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Balls are highly overrated when it comes to success factors at limit poker. Go play 5/10. You'll win.

J.R. · #20 10-29-2003, 02:31 PM

Does increasing my probability of taking down the pot not have as high an EV as does pumping the pot? How large would the pot have to be on the flop before you would consider check-raising?

I don't have the math skills or time to try to lay this out, but when you have a set and quite a good redraw against the straight draws, so there is not such a desire to have your opponents fold as there might be if you help a more vulnerable hand like TP/TK or JJ here.

By betting and 3-betting you may not get the draws to fold, but you charge the them 3 on the flop, so they gutshots aren't getting proper odds to draw and the outside straight draws, which aren't folding anyway, are getting charged to draw. You likely have the best hand and the best draw. I would advocate pumping the pot here. In addition, as it played out, there is a risk the button won't bet and you give free cards.

This may be a tough read, but when a button raises after lots of limpers and the flop comes with connected middle cards, I am less inclined to try to check-raise becuase the button's raise could be a wide range of hands, and given the scary nature of the board if the button holds big and/or suited cards, I wouldn't expect a bet as automatically as I would if the pot were more shorthanded and the flop was more paint and less limperific.