Well, we've heard Ray and Masons opinion of Stuey...

[Ryan_21]

Haha. You knew what I meant. Stop talking "negatively" about him, especially someone thats dead.

Ryan_21

[Ryan_21]

"Its clear that Stu Ungar was a very talented card player. I don't think anyone is disputing that."

Then why am I having to defend his legacy?

Ryan_21

[Mason Malmuth]

I'm sure Ray knew him better than all the people on your list.

MM

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Ryan:

I once had a phone conversation with a man named Norman Lepore (no relation to Vince), who was considered Unger's equal or near equal in gin. I also know other people who played gin against Unger, and when it comes to that game there is no question that what you hear is accurate.

Poker however is a different matter. I know of one instance where Unger lost more money than his backers had agreed to support. Thus this additional amount was never paid to the winners, yet if he would have won from this spot he would have kept the money.

Despite his great abilities, I just don't think it is long term good for poker to be presenting people like this as if they are something to be admired. Yes I know he's no longer with us and I agree that there is little to be gained by bashing the dead, but I also believe it is important to be a little more truthful and accurate than what you have heard.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Schmed]

in your post entitled Stu Unger FACTS "Anybody who discredits his accomplishments are just playa hatin and jealous because they are not up +$30 million playing poker, and only those, and I do mean only those who are up overall more than $30 million have the right to say anything negative about Stuey, and I dont think there is anybody on here in that stature.

So, if you are not up +$30 million or better shut your f'in mouth about the deceased and give the man his props."

[Nottom]

I think the bigger problem is that Sexton and Stupak were close to Ungar so their oppinions are going to be quite biased. Dalla is doing a Biography on the man so trying to make him out as some sort of superman of poker isn't a bad idea when trying to sell books.

[Timer]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Ryan:

Despite his great abilities, I just don't think it is long term good for poker to be presenting people like this as if they are something to be admired. Yes I know he's no longer with us and I agree that there is little to be gained by bashing the dead, but I also believe it is important to be a little more truthful and accurate than what you have heard.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew Ungar, and played with him some. If he wasn't in my game, he was in the game next door. This guy had unbelieveable skills and he also had unbelieveable weaknesses. He was crude and boistrous. He would spit on the floor. He was broke a lot. No one would play him gin, although I saw him and Doyle playing one day. Doyle beat him. Ray is a better all around player, because Ray could stay in money, and didn't have the huge ego Stuey did. Nor did he have the drug problem.

But this cannot be disputed. Ungar in his own way was a genius, and he would wipe the floor with Mason Malmuth in any game you would care to mention. That is a fact.

Deal with the rest any way you care to.

[Michael Davis]

This is in complete opposition to your position in the last thread.

-Mike

[Robk]

Hey Ryan,

Sorry to put another expert against you, but Bob Ciaffone wrote a card player article that essentially agreed with everything Ray said about his skills. Here's the link: Ciaffone on Ungar

[Mike Gallo]

Ryan,

With all due respect, why the infatuation with Stu Ungar?

Let it go.

Find another hero.

This reminds me of the Brady Bunch episode where Bobby Brady did a report on Jesses James and grew to idolize him.
Anyone who has seen the episode will understand the reference I made. To those who do not know the episode, sorry for referencing a 70's television show.