Limon's Essays II

[Phat Mack]

I agree with limon's comments on NL games. I would add that another way to contol NL games, other than capping the buy-in, is to reduce the re-buy. E.G. instead of capping at $100, reduce the re-buy to $40. People trying to control the games with big buy-ins will always have people taking shots at them; will always have to show down their hands (which they will hate); and will not be able to chip-whip the table with deep pockets. The down side of small re-buys is that it can work the dealer with lots of side pots. The dealer has to be good.

limon is also right about pot limit games. I would recommend adding a third dark bet. 1-1-2 with a $4 bring-in is a monster, yet cheap enough for anyone to take a shot at.

Good luck with your games at the Bike. I hope to check them out in Dec.

[J_V]

nob polisher.

[limon]

they've written alot about the ev ramifications of different chopping situations but i dont remember an article about chopping in re: table psychology. If they have it has been lost on nerdy ears cause most hardcore 2+2 regulars i met in the 15-30 @ bellagio are non-choppers. and possibly for good reason in a weak limit game but they take that mathmatical rigidness into a big bet game where it doesn't belong.

[tewall]

They've written about acting in certain ways (i.e. non-wit) in order to make their opponents happy to play, which is the point you were making. Nits who upset donators are definately acting against what they suggest.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
the game is in hayward, ca. at the palace (or used to be) cant comment if its still as good as it was during the dotcom boom.

[/ QUOTE ]

That game is terrible now. Horrible. You should never, ever, ever come anywhere near it. 10 of the 11 seats are always world-class NLHE players and the pots are always very small. Repeat: limon, Guy, TAFKAN, tewall, Ignatius, and other 2+2 NL regulars: DO NOT PLAY IN THIS GAME.

PS: To all 2+2 limit players just learning NLHE, you should swing by and check this game out.

[ramjam]

[ QUOTE ]
Repeat: limon, Guy, TAFKAN, tewall, Ignatius, and other 2+2 NL regulars: DO NOT PLAY IN THIS GAME.

PS: To all 2+2 limit players just learning NLHE, you should swing by and check this game out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for so selflessly posting this helpful advice.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Rick, no one i know will play in a restricted buy in game. not the good palyers and DEFINITELY not the bad ones. The good ones understand this is a major disadvantage, the bad ones WANT TO GAMBLE. the only players who frequent these max buy in games are scared limit players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Down in So. Cal "scared limit players" seems to be where the market is, at least for now. Between Hawaiian Gardens, Commerce and the Bike there are five to eight restricted buy in NL games going every evening. They seem to be attracting more players.

[ QUOTE ]
"if the casino wants to limit the risk LOWER THE BLINDS, dont cap the buy in."

[/ QUOTE ]

Right now $2 and $3 blinds with a $100 buy in seems to be the "sweet spot". This game pulls players in from the 3/6 level to the 8/16 level, with occasional top section players having some fun at the end of a session.

One problem with lowering the blinds is that the collection is dropped per hand. At the Commerce they take a complete collection PLUS jackpot drop even on an ante steal ($3+$1). At the Bike there must be a flop, otherwise "only" the modified drop of 50 cents is taken. The Hawaiian Gardens Casino takes $2 on no flop.

Perhaps once a base of restricted buy in game players is developed, a game with your structure could be added. But it might pull most of the live play out of the existing games.

[ QUOTE ]
OR (even better) lower the blinds and make the game POT LIMIT. a $1-$1 pot limit game is EXTREMELY deceptive. a good player can average $20+ an hour in such a game. a .50/$1/$2 to go is even better one could easily avg. $40 an hour in such a game. the "to go" is the key it fools everyone and makes a $2 kill high leverage cause now its $4 to go.

thats why the hayward gasme is so good. its looks like $1-2 no limit but plays like $5-5 no limit (or bigger)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the information. These structures are definitely something to think about.

Regards,

Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

Phat,

I was going to analyze your post, then you wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
The dealer has to be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that kills that idea in Southern California [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
limon is also right about pot limit games. I would recommend adding a third dark bet. 1-1-2 with a $4 bring-in is a monster, yet cheap enough for anyone to take a shot at.

Good luck with your games at the Bike. I hope to check them out in Dec.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just starting to play some of the 5-5 pot limit games. In this town, two games with the same structure at different locations tend to have different clientel and action.

I like the idea of requiring a bring to be bigger than the blinds. That promotes action. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what developes over the next few years. There should be a lot more smaller pot limit and no limit games of some sort.

Regards,

Rick

[J.A.Sucker]

Thanks dude, I'm thinking about stopping by and seeing what all this NL action is about. Plus, I could sure use a corn dog. Do you have any leads for fashionable, yet functional, kevlar products for the trip out to my car at night?