The Gamblor Peace Plan - Fire Away!

[MMMMMM]

Well what would you expect when most Palestinians support Hamas which is a genocidal fanatical terrorist group.

A fence is sorely needed. If Arafat can't contain the animals in his population a fence may have to be employed.

The average Palestinian can't really claim moderation as a fallback position because so many of them support Hamas.

[Gamblor]

Yasser and Sharon,, which would rid the world of two terrorists):

Sharon has never been implicated in the killing of innocents.

At worst, he has been implicated in not foreseeing the killing of innocents, which is very different. At Sabra and Shatila, as we have previously discussed, the IDF was not involved, but rather the CLA perpetrated this crime. The only blame Sharon can conceivably be labelled with is that he should have known the Christian Lebanese Army would go and murder the Palestinians. And even that is a stretch, considering it was the army of a foreign land.

Blaming Sharon for Sabra and Shatila is like blaming the parents for Columbine. Sure, they could have seen it coming, and should have been more involved in their kids lives, but they didn't send the kids to school with guns. How much can you control 17 year old kids or a Christian Army who's President you (the PLO) just murdered.

[nicky g]

"Sharon has never been implicated in the killing of innocents."


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[Cyrus]

Do you realize that you're now responding to imaginary posts?

Cyrus > "The most tragic aspect is that, in general, American Jews are actually more extremist than Israeli Jews on the issue of the Palestinians' future."

MMMMMM's "response" > "Well, what would you expect when most Palestinians support Hamas which is a genocidal fanatical terrorist group?"

Terrific. We should be seeing Humpty Dumpty in a minute.

[MMMMMM]

What I'm suggesting is that extremist positions amongst Jews might be neither unexpected nor unwarranted considering the widespread Palestinian support for the savagery of suicide bombing.

If you can produce Humpty Dumpty out of that, I'll buy you a Chesire Cat.

[Cyrus]

"What I'm suggesting is that extremist positions amongst Jews might be neither unexpected nor unwarranted considering the widespread Palestinian support for the savagery of suicide bombing."

You're still whistling Dixie. The question was about the difference between American and Israeli Jews. The American Jews are much more extremist in their views about Palestinians, even though it's Israeli Jews that bear the brunt of "the savagery of suicide bombings".

It's easier to be an extremist when all that is required is cheap posturing from afar --- only you will do any Humpty Dumpty number in order to duck the issue.

"If you can produce Humpty Dumpty out of that, I'll buy you a Chesire Cat."

You owe me a cat.

[Gamblor]

It's easier to be an extremist when all that is required is cheap posturing from afar --- only you will do any Humpty Dumpty number in order to duck the issue.

Doesn't that work the other way too?

Isn't it easy to take the moral high road and condemn Israeli actions when you're not a Jew trying to contemplate a history of Biblical floods, Egyptian Slavedrivers, Arab Invaders, Roman Imperialists, Greek Colonizers, European Crusaders and then KGB libelists, Nazi German exterminators, Arab Mujahedeen, then fighting through 6 wars against all of your next door neighbours, only to find out now they're going to try and get you from the inside?

[ QUOTE ]
It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

Theodore Roosevelt


[/ QUOTE ]

[MMMMMM]

If I get you a Chesire Cat, though, don't be surprised if it vanishes. And I only agreed to a Chesire Cat.

[Cyrus]

"Isn't it easy to take the moral high road and condemn Israeli actions when you're not a Jew trying to contemplate a history of Biblical floods, Egyptian Slavedrivers, Arab Invaders, Roman Imperialists, Greek Colonizers, European Crusaders and then KGB libelists, Nazi German exterminators, Arab Mujahedeen, then fighting through 6 wars against all of your next door neighbours, only to find out now they're going to try and get you from the inside?"

You have quite a distorted view of History, my man. There is no nation that can claim the kind of continuity that you claim for the Israelis.

...And you still haven't answered the part about American Jews being much more extremist than Israeli Jews.

[Gamblor]

You have quite a distorted view of History, my man. There is no nation that can claim the kind of continuity that you claim for the Israelis.

Apparently you don't read a lot of Siddurim (Jewish Prayer books). 99% of the prayers therein are written before Zionism, most in fact in Midaeval times and ALL Jewish prayers list Jerusalem or Zion (hebrew word for Jerusalem) as the Jewish homeland.

No prayer book omits mention of Noah's flood, the exodus from slavery in Eqypt, Joshua's return to the Holy Land by defeating the Arabs who had settled at Jericho while the Israelites were in Egypt, Lag B'Omer as the celebration of the Bar Kochva revolt against the Roman Imperialists, the holiday of Chanukah as a celebration of the Maccabean revolt against Syrian/Greek king Antiochus etc. The Crusades, KGB, Nazis, Mujahedeen, Arab-Israeli wars, are all contemporary history.

A History of the Jews
Check out the table of contents.

And for good measure:
Gifts of the Jews: How a tribe of desert nomads changed the way everyone thinks and feels

I left out the Spanish Inquisition of 1492.

I claim all of this as Jewish History. The Israelis are the rebirth of that nation; see Zionism . And I 100% claim this as my nation's history. And there are 15 million on earth who agree with me. Pretty much every holiday has ended with the same prayer for a thousand years.
"L'Shana Ha'ba'a beYerushalayim".
"Next Year In Jerusalem"

And you still haven't answered the part about American Jews being much more extremist than Israeli Jews.

I can't deny that. But it is a generalization.