value bet with trip aces on board

[Philuva]

I think you have a clear bet on the river. I think the fact your 55 is higher than the low card on the board, plus the fact he will most likely call you down with K and probably even Q high makes this a clear value bet.

[Rushmore]

So, then, the EP player puts our hero on, what...T/J?

Is this table still open? Can I get a seat?

[Diplomat]

I am not really sure what hand EP could call with if you bet, except a hand that beats you. Also I presume you could not push EP off a hand that beats you by betting the river. I'd check and hope to win against face cards or a 4.

-Diplomat

[skp]

IMO, checking the turn is the wrong play. This is because you cannot be put in a tough spot if you bet the turn. If you get raised, you fold. Simple. On the other hand, betting might get the other guy to fold a hand better than yours (i.e. 88, 87 etc.) or fold a draw with 6 outs i.e. KQ etc.

As for the river play, I would check here. The chances of being called by a 7 or a bigger pocket pair are way higher than the chances of getting called by King high or a tiny pocket pair. If the flop were AA4 and the turn was a 7, I could more easily accept the logic of a value bet on the river.

[Philuva]

You would be surprised what people would call here with. Most people don't think about what the other person has. They think, no way this guy has an Ace here, I am calling him down with my KJ, or QT, etc.

[Rushmore]

I've been down that thought process myself, and I guess ultimately, the question is about the type of player we're facing.

Not much chance of getting a better hand to fold on the turn, IMO, so I won't address the 88 or 8/7 scenarios.

As for the KQ, I don't see it as particularly likely, given the circumstances, so I don't consider it likely enough to try to protect against.

I realize the fact that in this position with pocket 5's, we're vulnerable and want to protect our hand. But opening the betting after he's checked in front of us might be exactly the worst way to do that. I know plenty of players who could make the play (check-raise bluffing at the turn here) if they read you for weak.

I dunno.

[mikelow]

To recap: I had pocket fives. The board was:

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

EP checked, and I bet. He called and showed 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and took the pot.

In retrospect the bet on the end was dubious as there was almost nothing I could beat (22, 33, Kx) and I will more likely be called by a better hand.

[skp]

I agree with portions of your post but not the part where you say "not much chance of getting a better hand to fold on the turn".

Look at it at the other way; suppose I posted this hand:

I limp UTG with 88 and button raises. Both blinds call. The flop is AA7. I check to the button who bets. Both Blinds fold. I call.

The turn is a 4.

I check. Button bets. What should I do?

I guarantee you that almost everyone will say that (a) I should have played the flop harder or (b) having played the flop the way I did, I should fold now on the turn when the preflop raiser bets again. After all, most of the time, the PFR is going to have an Ace or a pocket pair bigger than 8's.

So...I think a turn bet by the button with 55 is a must.

[mikelow]

Would be betting all the way. Now suppose I had pocket fives and the board was:

AA 4 7A.

Now I would value bet the river beacuse there are more hands I could beat, namely a pair of fours. The sequence
of how the cards came is important.

[M.B.E.]

Personally I would value-bet the river in my regular game because of my image as someone who bluffs a lot on the river.

Many players in my regular game would have played KQ, KJ, KT, even K9 against me exactly as this opponent did, and would definitely call one more bet on the river with KQ or KJ.