AK Overcards on 3 Suited Flop - Page 2

#11 12-15-2005, 02:11 PM

*grunch*

Check/fold it. Even if nobody has the flush now, it is very likely someone at least has a draw to it. Although I don't think it would necessarily be a horrible play to make a continuation bet as long as you fold to a raise.

#12 12-15-2005, 02:12 PM

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What are we doing when the flop comes T and under

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Usually continuation bet because the pot is big, trying to get it HU.

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You think someone is folding a 12SB pot for 1 SB on a flop that is all under ten. Since I guess we are assuming all players suck (I don't think we necessarily make that assumption) this is probably playing into their hand ranges of crap that they are playing anyways to a pfraise. So now there is 8BB on the turn and no one has folded and we are now [censored]. Not to even mention reverse implied odds

jaxUp · #13 12-15-2005, 02:12 PM

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I haven't played FR for since I learned of the greatness of shorthanded play many moons ago (hopefully will be playing some 2/4 FR at party this next month), but how often do you think that you are ahead on the turn raise. > 30%?

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yes. And FWIW, assuming it was 3bet 4-way preflop, we would be getting 10:2 on a call down, so we wouldn't even need to be good that often to make a call down profitable.

#14 12-15-2005, 02:13 PM

Grunch:

pretty easy c/f - A clean miss!

#15 12-15-2005, 02:14 PM

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grunch:

I bet the flop, you were the last aggresor pf. A check screams overcards/weakness. If I get raised, whether I call depends on my reads of the other player. There are times that you can take down this pot with a bet right here.

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Hi sarsen i think the odds of taking down the pot with a flop bet are close to 0%.

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Actually, at this limit, they are just less than 0%

jaxUp · #16 12-15-2005, 02:14 PM

you are only looking at negative scenarios. Have you considered what our equity is preflop? I really want somebody to pokerstove it.

#17 12-15-2005, 02:16 PM

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... With 3-5 outs ...

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I'm not sure you've got 3-5. 3 tops. Don't forget that A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] don't really count because they would put four to a flush on the board. I'd count maybe 1 out for the two aces and 1 for the two kings. As for the backdoor straight, I'd give it no more than 1 out because none of the cards can be hearts.

#18 12-15-2005, 02:17 PM

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you are only looking at negative scenarios. Have you considered what our equity is preflop? I really want somebody to pokerstove it.

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I know, my point was that I think if we give up or preflop equity edge, we can get more bets in postflop when we hit because of our position to the pfr, and not be forced to throw chips around when we miss.

#19 12-15-2005, 02:32 PM

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Have you considered what our equity is preflop? I really want somebody to pokerstove it.

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very true, but without being able to put any of my opponents on any kind of hand range and I am oop to all of them, and I can't see winning a pot where I don't hit, bet and win. So we have (I believe could be completely wrong) a 1/3 chance of hitting a A or K on the flop. That means that we are going to be in not so fun situations 1/2 of the time. (Subtracted for times when still have good draws and stuff)

I don't know, my reasoning is convincing me too much right now.

jaxUp · #20 12-15-2005, 02:36 PM

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(I believe could be completely wrong) a 1/3 chance of hitting a A or K on the flop.

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and we are putting in 1/4 of the money. This is definitely a winning proposition for us. Also, consider flops like JJ2 or 226 where we will often still have the best hand. We will win this hand very often, and as a result need to get in (and force others to put in) a lot of money.