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#11
12-08-2005, 02:39 PM
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Re: Stars Turbos $16 & $27 Players, Loose Limps Early?
[ QUOTE ]
1. Always 2. Level 1 only 3. Level 1 only 4. Any two gapper or better connector, down to 85o and 52s, Q8+, K7o+, any suited king, A7o+, Any suited ace, all pairs (except for the hands I would raise obviously). 5. Always 6. Level 1 sometimes, depending on table 7. Level 1 always level 2 sometimes. Buyin irrelevant, reads on the people to act after me effect my decisions. [/ QUOTE ] OMG THE MOD AGREES I MUST BE RIGHT! Seriously though, I'm encouraged that Durron agrees in most cases, and I think this topic is worth exploring further. As I stated in an above post, these low buy-in turbos are rather unique, in that the first level or two offers tremendous implied odds due to the reckless play. I think people avoid these hands for a couple reasons. One is that they, assuming the typical turbo, are entirely dependent on postflop skill as to whether or not they are +EV or not. Another is that since they are only slightly +EV(if at all), they may be worth passing up if you gain increased attention on other tables. I think a lot of multitablers pass up these marginal limps simply so they don't have to click so much. I also think it's +EV for your image to bust donks with these hands. If you're not careful you can quickly get carried away, but these speculative hands are a blast to play, a heck of a lot more entertaining than Robomonkey poker. 
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#12
12-08-2005, 02:51 PM
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Re: Stars Turbos $16 & $27 Players, Loose Limps Early?
[ QUOTE ]
OMG THE MOD AGREES I MUST BE RIGHT! [/ QUOTE ] I am a lot LAGgier than a lot of other people who also beat these levels, FYI. [ QUOTE ] One is that they, assuming the typical turbo, are entirely dependent on postflop skill as to whether or not they are +EV or not. [/ QUOTE ] This is true [ QUOTE ] Another is that since they are only slightly +EV(if at all), [/ QUOTE ] This is not true, if you play them right against the right opponents you can have 1900 chips by level 3-4 consistently, which is huge. It means you can get allin against a guy who folded the first 3 levels and still have 600 chips. When you double up, you can get all the way up to 4k chips instead of 3k which is huge. Also if you hit a flop really hard (straight, flush, whatever) and manage to stack someone for the cost of 20-30 chips that is soooo helpful.
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#14
12-08-2005, 02:59 PM
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Re: Stars Turbos $16 & $27 Players, Loose Limps Early?
I see your point and it is valid, but I see the image benefit as a donk image benefit, which does include the loose image. But I swear it works like this. I bust someone with K6s on the 6th hand. Lucky me. Everyone sees this, I'm such a donkey. For reasons I can't entirely comprehend, 5 hands later when I raise a bunch of limpers big with KK, they remember the junk they saw and don't give me credit here. Stupid and illogical, yes. But that's donkthought for ya.
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#15
12-08-2005, 03:03 PM
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Re: Stars Turbos $16 & $27 Players, Loose Limps Early?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Another is that since they are only slightly +EV(if at all), [/ QUOTE ] This is not true, if you play them right against the right opponents you can have 1900 chips by level 3-4 consistently, which is huge. [/ QUOTE ] This intrigues me. I've only been doing this for about the last 350 so I don't have a ton of data yet but I don't think I'm consistently at 1900 by 3-4. Please elaborate on your statement, I'm missing something, unless you meant 1900 was your average stack at 3 or 4.
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#16
12-08-2005, 03:06 PM
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Re: Stars Turbos $16 & $27 Players, Loose Limps Early?
[ QUOTE ]
This intrigues me. I've only been doing this for about the last 350 so I don't have a ton of data yet but I don't think I'm consistently at 1900 by 3-4. Please elaborate on your statement, I'm missing something, unless you meant 1900 was your average stack at 3 or 4. [/ QUOTE ] What I meant was, if you can lift 2 200 chips pots or 1 400 chip pot you'll be up there. I guess I meant half the time by consistently here, not "nearly every time".
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#17
12-08-2005, 03:18 PM
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Re: Stars Turbos $16 & $27 Players, Loose Limps Early?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This intrigues me. I've only been doing this for about the last 350 so I don't have a ton of data yet but I don't think I'm consistently at 1900 by 3-4. Please elaborate on your statement, I'm missing something, unless you meant 1900 was your average stack at 3 or 4. [/ QUOTE ] What I meant was, if you can lift 2 200 chips pots or 1 400 chip pot you'll be up there. I guess I meant half the time by consistently here, not "nearly every time". [/ QUOTE ] And the other half the time you have to start pushing PF at level 4... I'm not sold.
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#18
12-08-2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: Stars Turbos $16 & $27 Players, Loose Limps Early?
To me the most important thing would be being in late position with several limpers already in. I would think that more important than the cards. That is, you could limp with 64o in the vary favorable situation you mentioned, but limping in with a quite a bit stronger hand in an earlier position seems easily -EV. Being late allows you to see what will happen in all rounds before having to act, so your draw is much easier to play.
In an early level you won't get fold equity, so you have to play your draw passively. If you're in early (like the early MP example you gave with 2 limpers), it seems to me this could be easily -EV. Say you have T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], limp in third position, and 3 come in after you, and you get a flop like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Even though this is a pretty good flop for your hand, it seems like you could easily lose a lot of chips here.
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