2 Short stacks on the bubble. (Party 20+2)

[citanul]

tom: yeah, that's about what i'd expect too.

continuing: if the flop came all raggedy and the big stack pushed, i'd make a decision. i might fold, who knows. i doubt it though. do remember that sometimes you're going to hit hte flop and get the double up nicely.

c

I ask in all seriousness. I was going to post that originally if you limp you have to be willing to call any SB push, pre- or post-flop. Pre-flop, obviously, but as I thought about it I wasn't as sure about post-flop.

I think folding to post-flop action of any kind is suspect though. If SB has a hand and bets it, you're probably going out 3rd a lot of the time even with just K-high, and you're not coming back very often from 314 chips to do better than that anyway (especially throwing in the times SB pushes you off a hand that would have busted BB or picked up an extra 314 cushion vs his all-in).

Is the better question how often does SB fold to your push here pre-flop? Hero's decision is a lot easier if SB will call any two pre-flop.

[citanul]

the plan of "limp, never fold" is an incredibly good one, that if you used in this spot you would lose incredibly little equity over any plan that includes ever folding. however, pushing i believe to be clearly worse, as the sb might fold.

c

[FlyWf]

I doubt that any plan that involves folding even once at any stage is better than one that only includes checking and calling. There will be a sidepot if SB comes along, he's a big stack, and betting at the flop by the SB could be a bluff from either a smart or a stupid player. Folding leaves you with 2 BB and thus no FE, KJo ain't a bad hand to leave on.

I doubt it changes anything but I should have mentioned that the sb has been playing too tight so far and that I’ve been quiet as well, so I’m guessing he’ll fold to a push quite a bit.

Honestly I never even thought about limping, but I can definetly see the reasoning behind it. But, as far as post flop (assuming sb limps) do you guys really think that sb will never bluff at it? I’ve seen a lot of bizarre bluffs at dry side pots in these things that make absolutely no sense, so I wouldn’t entirely rule that out here. Ciaran brought up a good point as well that we will still beat the bb often enough that I think I would call a flop push no matter what.

[bluefeet]

It just doesn't matter if he bluffs at it. What two conditions are present when he pushes the flop?

- he has a legitimate but vulnerable hand, one likely to beat BB
- he has crap, donking without a sidepot

"limp, never fold"

If he has a hand great, he likely beats BB...beating us is academic in our PRIMARY concern in ensuring BB's demise.

If he doesn't have a hand, no problem. We haven't gone anywhere. Our hand is still racing vs. BB, now with a chance to double-up+.