Home tourney ruling needed

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He's the CO, you're the button. He puts out a chip and waits "a couple seconds" then says raise. No one else has acted, why wouldn't his raise stand?? Because he waited a couple seconds inbetween putting the chip out and verbally declaring raise??

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Yes, this is exactly why the raise shouldn't stand :P Throwing out an overvalued chip before saying anything is a call, thats the rule of poker. Whether or not you want to be nice and enforce this rule is up to the host [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Piiop]

He said raise.

yes, after he threw in the chip. Notice, I said the verbal indicator must be said BEFORE he throws in the chip.

Whatever you do first is always used...if you make a verbal decision first, it will be used, if you make an action deciscion first, it will be used. In this case, he made an action deciscion first, and that deciscion was call.

[Piiop]

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Notice, I said the verbal indicator must be said BEFORE he throws in the chip.


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Notice, that is not a rule according to Robert.

"15. If you put a single chip in the pot that is larger than the bet , but do not announce a raise , you are assumed to have only called. Example: In a $3-$6 game, when a player bets $6 and the next player puts a $25 chip in the pot without saying anything, that player has merely called the $6 bet ."

But you just proved my point? He put a chip in first, therefore that is what is taken.

Same idea as string bets...taking your example, if you put in $6, and then you say raise, and put in an additional $19 to make it 25...it won't count because it is a string bet. Your first words or your first action is always taken

[wdcbooks]

My memory was a bit faulty, he wasn't the CO, there was one person in between us. So I guess the idea was that because he said raise after the other person had folded he was too late, and his action was to be interpreted as a call. If he had waited a couple of seconds, then said 'oh I raise', before the next person had acted his raise could have stood.

I agree that it is a stupid rule. The assumption should be that a larger chip is a raise unless a verbal declaration of call is made. I posted this because I had a marginal hand and regretted the action once I learned that the other player meant to limp. In the interim between my bet and his fold I wanted to ask if I could take it back based on the change in his action, but I believe that would be what they calll 'a tell'.

[Piiop]

No, because he annouced "raise".

It was not like a string raise because he did not go back for more chips. He put in a chip and said "raise".

No one had acted after he had put the chip in before he said raise. The time inbetween him putting the chip out and saying raise was "a couple seconds". It's not like he sat there for a minute staring at the wall. If there was any confusion as to what his action was in those couple seconds, he says "raise" - no more confusion.

Edit: New information. Since someone else acted, his one chip means call.

It doesn't matter if he announced raise, the issue is that he did it after he already called.

Essentially, throwing an overvalued chip in, and then saying raise after is the same as saying call, and then saying raise after. Its a dumb idea when you put it that way, but it is a fitting parallel.

[Yads]

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In a limit game, the rule has a purpose...

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So what purpose does this rule serve in limit??

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To allow people to just call with bigger chips w/o having to explicitly say that they are calling. This happens quite often in a limit game, eg. you're playing 4/8 and you don't have enough whites or for some reason you want to use a redbird. You throw it out, it's just a call.

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There has to be SOME sort of rule on throwing in an oversized chip. The current rule is that it is a call, unless the player says raise. The only other alternative is that it is a raise, unless the player says call.

How is one of those rules better than the other? It seems both are pretty similar in terms of its pros and cons, it just so happens the poker ruleset chose rule 1.

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I think your second rule (oversized chip = raise unless you say it is a call) is more logical in NL.

Why? Because you usually don't have to say anything when you bet. If the bet is T25 and you put out a T25 chip, it's a call. If you put in four T25 chips, it's a raise. You don't have to say anything in either situation.

It's odd that, if you put in four T25 chips, it's considered a raise, but if you put in one T100 chip, it is considered a call.

If you wanted to call, but had no T25 chips, you'd ask for change first. Since you didn't, you wanted to raise.