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#2
12-01-2005, 04:30 PM
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Re: You LRR me, so I CRR you back!
[ QUOTE ]
This line was very rewarding since you hit on the turn. But if you miss are you firing on the turn and river still? [/ QUOTE ] No way. I have extremely little fold equity. I hope that UTG gets confused, or is drawing himself, and gives me a free card. If not, I have no problem calling with my close to 12 outs. 
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#4
12-02-2005, 10:26 AM
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Re: You LRR me, so I CRR you back!
[ QUOTE ]
Does sb have JJ ? [/ QUOTE ] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#5
12-01-2005, 04:20 PM
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Re: You LRR me, so I CRR you back!
Taking a step back from the hand specifics, I was looking at SSH and it pretty much religiously says push the pot any time it's +EV to do so. Given the hero has 12 outs, pushing the flop is definiately +EV.
The only reason to give up the flop +EV is if you can get an even better +EV on the turn. SSH drills this in with examples of waiting until the turn, but in his cases the reason you wait isn't to make your hand, but to see if the turn is a blank and check/raise a made hand. Examples are waiting until the turn in a big pot and top pair, but a flush draw on the board. Wait until the turn to push if it's a blank becaus your equity is so much better. Our hero is in the reverse situation, most of the cards cripple the hero's equity because most don't make his hand. In this case the hero needs to push at the flop because that's where his equity advantage is. Yes, it's true if the hero makes the turn cards his equity goes way up, but not enough to sacrifice his equity on the flop. If UTG was going to bet 100% of the time and the SB would always call, AND a river 4-flush won't give the pot way, then it becomes pretty close. Those are big assumptions though and whatever portion of the time those don't hold up severely diminishes the equity of waiting until the turn to check/raise.
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#6
12-01-2005, 05:08 PM
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Re: You LRR me, so I CRR you back!
I love it, but you need to have the gutshot to make this right. Without the gutshot on the flop, I'd prefer to try to peel cheaply.
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#7
12-01-2005, 06:49 PM
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Re: You LRR me, so I CRR you back!
[ QUOTE ]
I love it, but you need to have the gutshot to make this right. Without the gutshot on the flop, I'd prefer to try to peel cheaply. [/ QUOTE ] Why? Even with just a flush draw, you'll make that slightly more than 33% of the time. Every raise on the flop is for value as long as you have at least 2 callers and helps tie people to the pot when you do hit.
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#8
12-02-2005, 03:22 PM
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Re: You LRR me, so I CRR you back!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I love it, but you need to have the gutshot to make this right. Without the gutshot on the flop, I'd prefer to try to peel cheaply. [/ QUOTE ] Why? Even with just a flush draw, you'll make that slightly more than 33% of the time. Every raise on the flop is for value as long as you have at least 2 callers and helps tie people to the pot when you do hit. [/ QUOTE ] in situations with just a flush draw I really dont think it helps tie people to the pot. When you call/raise the flop on a board like this it looks like what it is, a set or the flush draw, when the 3rd flush card falls on the turn its an easy fold for people, and if it doesnt you might as well turn over your cards when you now check the turn, making it really hard to get paid off on the river.
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#9
12-02-2005, 02:43 PM
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Re: You LRR me, so I CRR you back!
you are getting some weird responses here.
getting a lot of bets in on the flop 3way is +ev. the way you played it allowed you to do that. surfdoc is right that there is no fold equity here.
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