45suited, 1000NL

[iceman5]

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iceman, that's a ridiculous line of thought. absolutely awful thinking. what is he betting that he calls my raise that doesn't beat me? if i call, i beat air, and if i raise, air folds, so raising is ONLY about extracting value from actual hands that can call me. and i'm saying in this case, raising for value is thin IMO.

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You have got to be kidding me. This is 3 handed. He'll call you with all kinds of hands....and even if he doesnt call you, you have to raise sometimes just so he wont lead into you on the river like that.

[iceman5]

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If youre not going to raise that river, then dont raise 54s preflop and dont play 3 handed. You have to raise that river.

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This is one of the worst arguments commonly put forward in SSNL. "If you're not going to raise/call/whatever, don't play [x]". Luckily, it doesn't show up too often in Mid/High. That's good, because it is a bad argument. As you play a hand, you get more information. Preflop play and river play don't always link up. If you hit a set, you don't always have to play it fast, nor are you required to take it to showdown. There's nothing wrong with raising 54s and then playing cautiously against a good player. I'm not saying anything about this particular hand; I'm just attacking the argument. I didn't really look at the hand to be honest.

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Thats hilarious. You feel the need to comment about my comments but you didnt even read the hand thoroughly? Whats your point in doing that?

This is 3 handed. If you are afraid to value raise the river with a very disguised straight (disguised since you raised preflop with 54s) just because theres a pair on the board, then you'll get eaten alive playing short handed.

[edge]

My point is to get people to stop using that argument. It is dumb and never correct.

I raise the river as well.

now that makes more sense iceman. but, as stated before, stack sizes are awkward, so any decent sized raise commits me to an all-in. And i need more information (i.e. will he 3-bet me?)

Does no one think a min-raise, fold to 3-bet is better than the raise I made?

You said he likes raising scared-looking river bets with air if his read is you made a "raise, but fold to a push" raise. I don't think making a tiny raise giving him room to bluff you an unknown percentage of the time is good. If you are going to raise, a sizeable raise is good, I'd say 700-800 or just a push. That looks more bluff-like and will still get called by most hands that would have called 600.

However, if I get the vibe or whatever that I'm beat, I have no qualms just calling this river. No sense raising because you "have to." Granted, I do usually raise here, but I've definitely called before too.

Given your read, I like a call or a big raise about equally. If you had that vibe you were beat going, as raising felt wrong to you when you did it, then I like a call a lot more than a raise.

[Maulik]

Dude, that's standard. If you don't make this move you'll miss out in lots of value over the long-haul.
nicely played.