Small pocket pair blind defense - how is my line?

[Nick Royale]

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I'm just curious how good a line like this is against an aggressive TAG.

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I think this line is good against an aggressive TAG. A TAG isn't likely to 3-bet you with air on the flop, but might be capable of folding overs for a bet on the turn.


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Like in a WA/WB situation I'm keeping the hands undefined while inducing worse hands to bluff and losing the minimum to a better hand (while going to showdown as cheaply as possible)

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The problem with a WA/WB-line is, as you probably know, that we're not WA/WB. Our opponent has at least 6 outs against us and we want him to get the opportunity to fold these and at the same time charge him for the times he's behind on the flop, which he'll often be. The times we'll get outplayed by a tag on this flop is when he has a fd and 3-bets (not all tags will 3-bet though). That's not anything we can protects ourselves against, the few times he has a flushdraw and 3-bets it we have to give up with this weak hand. Small PPs are vulnerable against semi-bluffs just because with a flop containing 3 overs we just can't call down against aggression against a reasonable or semi reasonable player.


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Sometimes I feel I have to not raise the flop to avoid getting threebet on the flop with air and outplayed by ace high. I feel like my pair is very likely good, but sometimes I just want to trade some value for perhaps a cheaper showdown. Good? bad? How often should I be mixing it up, if ever?

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You're not trading anything for a cheaper sd since you'll not go to a sd when you meet resistance. If you want to mix it up and think you're up against a player capable of 3-betting the flop with A-high you can just call the flop bet and raise the turn for a free sd. Most players will also autobet the turn meaning we're still having the same chance of being ahead when we raise the turn (yes, he could have hit the turncard but most often he'll be seeing this card even if we had raised the flop).

As said this would be a good line if you're worried your opponent might 3-bet the flop with air, since he's much less likely to 3-bet the turn with nothing. If you think your opponent is capable of folding a low pair to a turn raise this line gain even more value. I definately like this line better than calling down in any case. It will cost the same as calling down and most often we'll just be folding 2 outs the few times we're getting 3-betted on the turn, in contrast to our opponent who are folding at least 6 outs to our raise (EDIT: 6 outs in general, in this case 12 outs as Nick C pointed out). Also this line will most often end up in a sd. You shouldn't use this line against a maniac or one of these types of players who goes beserk in blind battles, since we might be folding the best hand. Players aggressive enough to 3-bet the turn with nothing are pretty rare though.

At least that's a line I take to mix it up against some players, and I think it's good.


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And what about that river?

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I wouldn't be betting this river (as said I'm betting the turn as the last bet I put into the pot), but if you do you need to be able to fold to the c/r.

[gh9801]

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As said this would be a good line if you're worried your opponent might 3-bet the flop with air, since he's much less likely to 3-bet the turn with nothing. If you think your opponent is capable of folding a low pair to a turn raise this line gain even more value. I definately like this line better than calling down in any case. It will cost the same as calling down and most often we'll just be folding 2 outs the few times we're getting 3-betted on the turn, in contrast to our opponent who are folding at least 6 outs to our raise (EDIT: 6 outs in general, in this case 12 outs as Nick C pointed out). Also this line will most often end up in a sd. You shouldn't use this line against a maniac or one of these types of players who goes beserk in blind battles, since we might be folding the best hand. Players aggressive enough to 3-bet the turn with nothing are pretty rare though.

At least that's a line I take to mix it up against some players, and I think it's good.


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I like this line better too. Thanks

[Badgerpoo]

Grunch:

Raise the flop, bet the turn if checked to, fold otherwise.

Maybe even reraise PF? That might be a bad play though.

[yellowjack]

I'd like to hear thoughts on the river bet. Are we getting called by ace high on this board?

[gh9801]

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I'd like to hear thoughts on the river bet. Are we getting called by ace high on this board?

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Villain can have anything at this point. Many TAGs will fire two bullets after raising preflop here with any two. The way the hand was played he could have 7 high, ace high, or quads. Often times I would be ahead the entire way agianst ace high and on this type of board, the way I played the hand, ace high will rarely fold. I think a value bet is necessary here.

After the river c/r now I have no idea what is right or what I should have done.

[Nick Royale]

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I'd like to hear thoughts on the river bet. Are we getting called by ace high on this board?

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Villain can have anything at this point. Many TAGs will fire two bullets after raising preflop here with any two. The way the hand was played he could have 7 high, ace high, or quads. Often times I would be ahead the entire way agianst ace high and on this type of board, the way I played the hand, ace high will rarely fold. I think a value bet is necessary here.

After the river c/r now I have no idea what is right or what I should have done.

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I agree his range is wide, but we need to estimate how often we'll get called by a worse hand. I don't think this is a value bet and I think a fold to a check/raise is pretty easy against a tag. You definately should not bet this river if you can't fold to a c/r imo.

[gh9801]

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I'd like to hear thoughts on the river bet. Are we getting called by ace high on this board?

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Villain can have anything at this point. Many TAGs will fire two bullets after raising preflop here with any two. The way the hand was played he could have 7 high, ace high, or quads. Often times I would be ahead the entire way agianst ace high and on this type of board, the way I played the hand, ace high will rarely fold. I think a value bet is necessary here.

After the river c/r now I have no idea what is right or what I should have done.

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I agree his range is wide, but we need to estimate how often we'll get called by a worse hand. I don't think this is a value bet and I think a fold to a check/raise is pretty easy against a tag. You definately should not bet this river if you can't fold to a c/r imo.

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You're probably right. This c/r is an easy fold even despite my passive play throughout the hand. I just figured that since my hand was played so weakly, villain can be c/ring here with a wider range of hands, like maybe ace high. But probably not.

I'm starting to favor checking behind. Betting makes less sense. I'm not even sure how often I'll see ace high in this spot, paying me off. Q high or worse probably won't pay me off. More often any action I get is a better boat. I'm not gaining much value by B/f-ing

[Nick Royale]

Re-reading the hand I think a river bet might be justified (I'm still not paying of a check/raise). But it depends much on what reads he have on you and how solid your read is. If you think you're unknown to him he's more likely to pay off with A-high and he rarely has you beat since he's likely to bet all PPs on the river. It's a tricky situation, but most often I think I'm checking.