Counterfeited on the river...

hey, tilt, then you disagree that the raise compromises the worth of the hand? Doesn't that raise remove the flush worth of it?

tlt.

How delicious a hand! I definitely call PF with A9s and don't fault the raise on the flop, but I probably don't cap with 2 hearts AND at least 3 in the pot (the SB only check/cold called 2 ?!?) Interesting. His turn bet had the desired effect of confusing both aggressors in the hand, thus buying "virtual" position - he got a free card on the river, although I expect he was very disappointed to not get any action. Unless he is a total donk, I'd put him on 1. TT, 2. AT, distant 3 & 4 a Khigh flush draw or possibly sloplayed AA, but neither of those fit the stats. In any case, fold cuz U are beat.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
hey, tilt, then you disagree that the raise compromises the worth of the hand? Doesn't that raise remove the flush worth of it?

tlt.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't see why raising reduces the value of the hand.

i might be (mis)interpreting what you are saying but are you suggesting that "playing a hand for flush value" entails not betting (or raising)? if so then i disagree.

well, i'm saying that, in this instance, with 6 players seeing the flop, there's a very good chance youre going to be dominated by another A, if the A falls. So the 6% of the time you hit a flush on this hand is crucial to the value of the hand in this situation.

if you raise the hand, that 6% is wiped out, isn't it? you're voluntarily increasing the cost of seeing that hand through to the end.

and then you're thrown back on the power aspect of the hand--which may not be enough in this circumstance.

[adsman]

If you raise preflop and hit your flush you win more because;

1. you raised preflop. The pot is double the size.
2. you tie people to the pot due to it being large, so they pay you off more.
3. you may get everyone to check to you when you want to see the turn or river for free as you showed agression preflop.

Also, on this particular hand, if you don't raise preflop you're basically letting 3 random hands, (the poster, the sb and the BB) see the flop 'for free'.

right, got it.

(pounding my forehead into the wall)

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise preflop and hit your flush you win more because;

1. you raised preflop. The pot is double the size.
2. you tie people to the pot due to it being large, so they pay you off more.
3. you may get everyone to check to you when you want to see the turn or river for free as you showed agression preflop.

Also, on this particular hand, if you don't raise preflop you're basically letting 3 random hands, (the poster, the sb and the BB) see the flop 'for free'.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah. what he said.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I wouldn't fold this hand pre-flop, since it's so easily dominated

[/ QUOTE ] +

a. you really need to reread the SSHE section on domination
b. domination is NOT a very big issue w/ a suited hand in a multiway pot
c. you aren't dominated very often here, since noone has raised
d.. folding here preflop is terrible

[Redd]

Thief, IMO you seem to be undervaluing the TP abilities of the hand too. We can usually expect a pfr from AJ/AQ/AK, and AT only happens occasionally. We'll drag the pot here fairly often when we pair our ace, and even when we pair our nine.

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I wouldn't fold this hand pre-flop, since it's so easily dominated

[/ QUOTE ] +

a. you really need to reread the SSHE section on domination
b. domination is NOT a very big issue w/ a suited hand in a multiway pot
c. you aren't dominated very often here, since noone has raised
d.. folding here preflop is terrible

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to quote this point for emphasis. Not everyone raises AT preflop, but you don't have to be worried all that much about AJ, AQ, and AK in this situation. If there are other A's out there, you're much more likely to be the dominator, not the dominated.