Its not about odds.

[lotus776]

agreed, this seems like a pretty weak approach to the game overall

[lotus776]

how many times do you plan on getting pckt prs. 1010 through QQ during a tourney? those hands are rarities...when do you make you move? when do you call an all-in bet preflop with your good hands...you're going to have to do this if you plan on eliminating players...not all of them are going to wait for the flop

From what I've seen, you're on the money.

It seems as though the less cerebral players want to get into those pre-flop battles hoping to get someone all-in, so that the cards are then all turned without anymore betting (and thinking) to do.

[Artsemis]

The title of this thread was the most accurate thing it had going for it. Not betting hands preflop when you have the advantage is bad poker.

To claim you want to see flops as cheaply as possible and with a set number of people without specifying hand types is also bad poker.

As ambitiously didactic as you are, about 85% of what you said is totally wrong.

This sounds about inline with the quality of my thoughts when I first began playing NL tourneys.

I agree, way too tight. When you have an edge, you want the pot to be bigger not smaller. With your ideas I'd never play a hand and i'm a pretty tight player during the first few levels.
You are suggesting getting as many people in a small pot so that when you hit a miracle flop you win multiway pot. I'd rather contest big pots against as few players as possible when I have the best hand.

[ QUOTE ]
The key to holdem is controlling the pot size. Maximizing profit with nut hands. Avoiding stupid risks. And not relying on odds all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right. There's no point me knowing the odds in poker, complete waste of time! Your nut hands won't get paid off either if you play too tight.

[dogmeat]

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: This manily applies to tournament play.

Knowing odds should be a tool in your arsenal but shouldn't be the main weapon.

1.) Keep the pot small.

Lastly, think about getting slowplayed. If you flop middle pair an he checks to you, keep the pot small to avoid getting duped by a slowplay. Check, or raise a small ammount.

2.) Avoid pre flop play at all costs.


Avoid all ins preflop like the plaugue.

3.) Your preflop hand means nothing. Now, about odds:

I will often fold TT - QQ preflop is someone is agresivly betting. The theory here is that I will wait until its cheap for me to enter and out play after the flop, rather than making a risk by putting up a lot of my stack pre flop when any ace hand or king hand can take me out.

The key to holdem is controlling the pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your advice, well certainly well-intentioned, is some of the worst I have ever seen here on 2+2. This is compounded by the fact that you seem to see yourself as an expert.

A few of your points are valid (in and of themselves), when you look at the parts I quoted above, this post is terrible.

Keep the pot small? Not when you have a quality hand - and I don't give a rat's about being slowplayed against. It is much worse to give someone a free card - and also to not try and find out where you are at - especially in a tournament.

I'm not even going to get into the other things...........it's all bad.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I never said I wanted the pot small with a quality hand.

Your misinterperting my post.

Here are the essentials of my post:

Your going to get busted if you play the odds game a lot early on.

You need to control pot size effectivley to control your chip stack throughout a MTT

Don't take stupid risks early on even if you have a slight advantage. If some donkey is betting all in to a 100 doller pot, you better hand the, or close to the nut hand to play. Far to often I see good players callt hese all ins with top pair, only to see the donkey catch a stright or a flush on the river.

Of course you don't want to play like a weak scared donkey, but it is better to play weak in the begining, because it is a hell of a lot easier to steal blinds late when your known as a tight player, than when your known as an agressor.

[UATrewqaz]

All your advice does is decrease variance at the cost of EV.

A player following your "safe" advice will have less peaks and valleys and be a slightly more consistent winner, but someone playing the odds by putting in a ton of money preflop with the best hand will indeed in the long run finish better.

I'm confused, are we talking cash games or tournaments? I'm talking cash games.

Tournaments you have to be a little extra careful because if you bust you bust.

[ QUOTE ]


misinterperting

Your going to get busted if you play the odds game a lot early on.

effectivley

If some donkey is betting all in to a 100 doller pot, you better hand the, or close to the nut hand to play. Far to often...stright...on the river.

begining,...when your known as a tight player, than when your known as an agressor.

[/ QUOTE ]

MisinterpReting.

You're.

a lot = often.

effectivEly.

dollAr.

toO.

StrAight.

BeginNing.

You're.

AgGressor.

Hmmmm, its know wondur peep-hole thynk yu hav alot too lern.

Are you 9? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Good luck at the tables..